In China this can apply to the huge aging population in China in 'opposition' to the huge younger ( 10-30 )population that may in advertantly be responsible for China's current but inevitably slow 'westernisation' ( read increased materialistic values)
Then back to our British Born Chinese culture, having scoured the posts of British Chinese Online and have come across viewpoints that our elders are a burden, and anyone over the age of so and so is seemed as 'invalid'
So with the kind of modernist attitude that one treats a fellow Chinese in the same way that one may also view an out of date PC hardware, have the younger made more progress when it comes to a BBC political movement or is the big fuss about being young in Britain just mean 'survival' in an economic recession?
The following assumptions about British Born Chinese in the UK based on a middle class mindset and being British Born Chinese, and I have also used the following westernised generation terminology z, y and x , to categorize.
- Under 20s-early 20s. Gen z. Still learning about life, mature mindset for a young age, possibly easier circumstances and experiences with a stronger base and lots of British Born Chinese/Chinese friends, with extreme swings of being serious minded about career to those who still finding their way and enjoying life and not so serious about developing a political identity. Big family support. The most time. Quick adapters and learners but also growing up in the worst of economic times.
- Early 20s-early 30s. For whatever reason I call this the transition group, also known as Gen Y. with the economic period, probably struggling more with economic issues than cultural/political issues. Again some are more successful than others, id say either falling into high paid jobs, out of work, in between jobs. Still supported by family in some cases. Less free time.
- Mid 30s to early 40s. This is the gen x group. Career established, some maybe still job-hopping. Mostly have sold out to the white-assimilation mindset and settled down, some with kids. Many still single, typically in high paying jobs, or at least in a relationship of some kind. Probably some family support. Hardly any time.
- Mid 40s+ settled down, not interested in activist / bbc identity issues or if are, probably in a vocal minority with academic / career links to such issues/interests. Well established career, if single, then quite happy, if with family, than also quite happy. This generation coming of age in the 90s have seen the most opportunity, and taken advantage of it. Little family support, typically supporting parents, rather than other way around. If happy settled, and comfortable ots of time, if not, then little time because too busy juggling kids and work.
So what is my point with the above assumptions?
Well, firstly I wanted to distinguish us from the immigrant Chinese, or first gen, who also obviously fall into the above categories
Secondly, as can be seen from the above list, age already determines the interest/ impetus to follow up issues whether as an artist, or sharing opinions in a considered manner.
Of course, it's easy to say that the younger generation ( late teens – early 20s) are the future and any older too old, but too old for what?
The question that i'm wondering the most here is – does your age affect your ability to develop your British Chinese identity ? Do you have friends of a certain age , who because of falling into the above categories, have little time for certain things as thinking about political issues or a British Chinese community...because of their age? Do you agree that age determines your lifestyle/mindset? And obviously from personal experience, what your thoughts are on this, maybe referring to other people as examples if you don't want to talk about yourself.
One obvious advantage of youth is to challenge authority and create new ways. So if that is the case....where are the up and coming new voices for our British Born Chinese cultural change?
Article misses the point, if you have no community because its geographically dispersed with no real culture and generations heavily indoctrinated by the British education system to be pro-multicultural, it makes no difference what age you are, you're not going to be racially radical nor political, except for a small handful of people who refuse to buy into it.
ReplyDeletesure, the older you are the increasing likelihood you are to take an interest in genealogy, hertiage etc, youngsters are certainly not going to care about such issues, but that doesn't mean you'll suddenly want to migrate to China, Hong Kong etc. You cannot take the British out of the BBC, most of them are too westernised beyond redemption, they're too immersed into western culture and they don't see western culture as detrimental to their identity but something to embrace. Crystal Chan is an example.
Go to this BBC Facebook group here...
http://www.facebook.com/groups/britishbornchinese/
The group is largely aimed at the under 25's, their concept of a BBC identity seems to revolve around:
1. Nightclubbing
2. drinking alcohol
3. hello kitty/zelda
4. parading photos of themselves with their multicultural friends who are white, black indian etc or photos of mixed race Eurasian kids
5. eating dimsum
There are non-BBC's , i.e mixed race Eurasians and FOBS, and non-chinese (whites) in that BBC group and the BBC's don't even react. So what is the point of defining yourself as a BBC or creating a secular BBC group if it has no boundaries and is required to accommodate multi-culturalism for fear of being labelled racist? There is no racial identity to be developed beyond a euphemism for inter racial breeding.
'euphemism for inter racial breeding 'haha wheres my iphone4s its urgent- gotta check if we still eat salads
ReplyDeleteI forget to add...by the time those who decide to take an interest in their Chinese heritage and genealogy etc, most of them would have already been married - most likely inter racially married, so its rather too late.
ReplyDeleteYour identity would have already been baked and 'multi-racialled' by your inter racial partner and inter racial kids.
I suppose if one looks at it from a different perspective, I'm glad I didn't settle down when I had the chance to because there is no doubt that having investigated my heritage hands on and seen my ancestral burial site in the far east for the first time and seeing how tradition is passed down etc, there is absolutely no way that I will see any value in marrying a white person now, but I wouldn't have known that if I stayed in the UK, living in the UK is not a natural home for a Chinese person, many BBC's have a skewed detached upbringing dominated by white culture without a genuine understanding nor appreciation of Chinese heritage or tradition. However, tradition can be a burden too, confusion can partly be attributed to too much western influence, so much so that 'Chinese' becomes alien to those who are BBC.
I think it also helps if you were raised with strong cultural roots. tradition can mean different things for different people.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a strong chinese tradition in your family and you are still in daily contact with your family in a daily way and everytime you revisit your home in the far east- as you say 'investigated' your chinese cultural roots are ( obviously) going to be a lot stronger than for someone who only is surrounded by white culture. but does it make the latter bbc 'inferior' or just 'less aware'?
For some BBCs they dont have this luxury of revisiting and investigating because they are too far removed. The reality for such bbcs is that without parental or family support to investigate their Chinese heritage, they have to take their own initiative,and sometimes start over..all on their own. It can be done, but its a lot more challenging than when you already have 'connections'. its all relative.
in this way, the former example is a more 'privileged'bbc than the latter.
so by contesting bbc's cultural connection by basically contesting their whiteness, on one hand it gives us the chance to rethink our connection to western ease of upbringing against the sometimes more challenging and inconveniently ( read far away) home of our real culture. which, if you have zero or little connection with through no fault of your own, takes more time, expense, effort, and to some extent reinventing your cultural identity.
Finally, there is the whole chinese culture vs western culture outlook. Cultural connection is a personal thing. For many, 'westernised'bbcs there is on first glance little incentive to investigate chinese culture when western is consdered so 'modern' and chinese is considered so 'old'
nevermind chinese in the uk - look at chinas now generation - despite setbacks by the west with opium wars and cultural revolution, china is now adopting western ( modernism), technology, steve jobs etc etc.
even look at HK. as already has been established, if it wasnt for the UK, it wouldnt have what it is. look at your last comment here
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-central-hong-kong.html
the fact that HKers love western things but (some) hate the westerners is neither here nor there. it also doesnt explain the white worship there and the profuse amount of representative hapas in the film industry. HK simply wouldnt have what it has if it wasnt for western occupation.
also why is there so much negativity between HK'ers and mainlanders? when you really look at it, its basically manners and refinement, stuff that HK'ers adopted from british practice, no doubt.
for an individual to find connection to a culture that is being westernised ( and in the case of HK, already adopted western practice) takes a certain dedication.
Similarly in the case of 'now' generation bbcs, with HK shaped by british refinement and now china looking to the west ( specifically US) for modernisation influence, its a challenge for BBCers or most western Chinese to find cultural links, unless its a personal decision.
ReplyDeleteas we know, money and progress are all that matters. and these days, the faster the better...
with such varying backgrounds of connection to cultural ancestry and upbringing, its more important than before for, for bbcs to be 'accepted' in western culture ( read : accept each other) with our own unique cultural identity, hence the parroted reminder of us needing our own media culture, one that white establishment will not fund, as it , as we know, only seeks to fund hapas or fobs in representing british chinese...
lots of milestones to break...but hopefully there will be a way to understand us individually both , obviously as individuals, and respect each other as bbcs with individual cultural connections.
its a big task, but look at the reality - if it doesnt happen, then bbcs will continue to be anomalys.
its only our passion ( read: learning, experiencing, friendmaking) for our chinese heritage and dismissal of white influence that can honestly have a chance to develop ourselves as bbcs, and ( as on this blog) learning to share and respect this evolution within each other.
'share and respect' by which i mean practically, getting a google ID and getting to know each other, rather than leave one-off comments where we all try and save face, sing our tune and vanish or berate each other, rather than discuss.
ReplyDeletetheres a lot of work to be done,if theres going to be any progress, may as well start sooner rather than later.
i would also add one last thought its within chinese nature to be practical that seems to overlook the long tradition of cultural history - that is buying things that we feel make us seem better in front of others. as already mentioned above, in a western world, this means the latest gadgets, haircuts, clothes and language.
ReplyDeletein relation to this, yes chinese culture with its fashions, buildings, food can seem 'old and irrelevant' . and in the light of whats said above with china becoming westernised its easy to 'go with the flow'
however, on a personal level. no matter how hard we try ,amazingly we will never be accepted as white. and when we realise that 'multinationalism' as will no doubt be promoted next year at the olympics. british born chinese will be as usual included with the usual zero british representation and with the usual lack of support from a china-hating imperialist media/government not seeing to change, unless we continue to appreciate our own culture on a personal level and expressing ideas on this blog through articles, or in independent media as artists we will have little to show for ourselves, as chinese.
the true responsibility of a bbc i feel is to show the chinese that the west is not all that - the actual opposite of what bbcs are doing now. and that a 5000 year + cultural history that although maybe difficult to understand, is in our blood and essentially a peaceful culture is worth preserving more than the much younger western history that is built on bloodshed , social engineering and colonisation.
peace in this respect to me doesnt mean, using a bbc male as an example, being a wet soppy nerd who carries his girlfriends handbag, but someone who will stand up for their culture, just like other ethnics in the uk do - like blacks or south asians, regardless of how well connected your roots are.
this is reason enough to embrace your culture, and at least start to try and embrace it, but again, unless you have developed the passion, its hard to appreciate this fully i suppose.
its arguable that the 'now'generation are a generation of convenience rather than a culturally appreciative one, and its another argument to say whether its generations before did anything or enough to influence against this, but history is what it is , and there are of course 'world events' that intervene as the struggle for power goes on between east and west that must be navigated in our daily lives.
What this means for the cultural future of bbcs, is anyones guess, but unless things are clearly being developed, then they get left behind. technologically and monetarily advanced we may become, but without cultural curiosity , open to learning, philosophical respect, innovation and preservation...at what cost?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis is what the Chinese race is doing desperately wrong, and where british born blacks and asians manage to get right. Early on, it is locked into them, their community, that it is normal to have relationships, marriage, children etc. with the opposite sex of YOUR OWN RACE. This is not the case with our race, who - with all the talk of "Tiger mums" or whatever, allow the children to just pair off with whoever... this is echoed in other countries with significant but minority Chinese communities e.g. Singapore. As a result, we have women who are raised up "white" and essentially act British/American/the country they were born in, and only later on in life they "discover" their roots - after they've had white children.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, the British/US etc. Chinese men are more likely to turn towards their roots later on in life when they discover that the interracial game is rather one sided... and those that do pair off with other races' women have fallen into the same trap the Chinese women.
End result? The Chinese community ending up being non-Chinese (white blood over several generations making their minimal Chinese roots irrelevant) in the future, and relying on recent Chinese immigrants to actually keep the proper Chinese community going.
And of course, they will repeat the above process within a generation or two. Very sad for the race.
Dont agree, black males inter racial marriage rate is almost as high as Chinese female/white male inter racial rate in the UK, Black females are having problems finding partners as they are rejected by all races even their own.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, thats not the topic in question, the article is about age, so what are your thoughts about age and identity?
I'd like to add HappyBritishChinese analysis of the teen- early 20's, this group has more access to Chinese culture or BC/BBC culture via the internet than the previous generations, this in theory should make them more aware of being Chinese or at least associating with other Chinese people, in practice however, its all offset by the points I made already...i.e multiculturalism, geographical dispersal etc.
@anonymous and bbcz
ReplyDeletewhether IR agenda disguised as multicultralism will encourage the younger gens to dilute the bbc culture and render us invisible noone knows but its safe to assume itll get worse before any better
in china, IR is less there, obviously because of the bigger population but the seeds of white worshipping are planted under the guise of a better lifestyle and western values rather than westernisation and this almost prepares the new bbcs ( im assuming mainlanders) having been impressed by westernisation to then arrive in the west where IR sneakily promoted as multiculturalism takes up the mantle to dilute the chinese race and whiteness becoming synonymous with 'freedom' and progression. without digressing too much war has indeed seen progress, but now at overdrive self-destructive levels which it is now paying for
it will take either
a/ a new attitude from the younger generation of new mainland british chinese to create a stronger sense of identity and awareness.
b/ more mainlanders to the uk to increase the size of british chinese.
c/ western agenda to weaken as the west weakens its insistence on being the sole influence with the rise of china's refusal of accepting of western propaganda.
like i said before, what the new gen dont seem to understand or seem to see is that no matter how 'individual' we strive to be with our 'unique styles' and aspirations,until this agenda lets up we have to act that we will never be seen as individuals and only as a mass or 'the chinese'. just like anyone with almond eyes is bandied as being 'chinese' whether they are korean , japanese, or any east asian nationality.
it takes a long time for powers that be to undo their social engineering. at the same time, chinese need to be less insular in general, and develop more of an outspoken arrogance infront of whites. no matter how distasteful it may be to confucian values , its actually what many of us bbc males need to express to level this situation.if media wont represent us, we have to represent ourselves.
cant pretend to be humble forever. and even if we are, we need to publicly assert ourselves in the west and express our dominant personas and not just in our bbc groups.
at the moment, peaceful nature just isnt interesting enough to be accepted by a violent western society. and wanting to be white certainly wont gain respect. if anything, the western world needs to learn what it meanst to be chinese. but even a cantonese mandarin speaking white person supported by all the IR advertising and jealous anti-china tactics and manipulation will never achieve that over the most sellout whitewashed bbc seemingly beyond redemption has - simply because our 5000year strong culture is in our blood.
^ and thats why they want to dilute us.
ReplyDeleteDaily Mail and their readership at it again
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2066380/Will-World-War-III-U-S-China.html
Literally every sentence and most of the comments there is lined with hypocrisy, I don't know where to start. Huge use of rhetoric and poetic literature, further cementing the notion of that "distant, alien race known as the Chinese"... readers commenting on how Chinatowns can be used as a base of operations in any war (forgetting the sizeable white ghettos in the Far East), the age old stereotype of the Chinese only caring about money and power (if only they would look at themselves), and whispers of Chinese battleships one day sailing into the Thames... forgetting the convenient fact of US bases and warships doing exactly that, for real, right now, near Chinese shores.
This fearmongering is quite pathetic, but as we have seen with threats of terrorism, it successfully alienates entire communities in the name of "security". How many ethnic Chinese will face persecution and progroms in the coming decades as a result of articles like the above?
I must add, I'm definitely having less and less interest in American, British or White culture with age. For example, Although I still read English newspapers, I'm only reading it because its written in English, as English is my first language, but I hardly watch any British TV these days, it just doesn't appeal to me any more, I don't know if its just an age thing as I find TV trivial or perhaps the fact there are no ethnic Chinese people on our screens - the few who are on it are just too white washed to watch or it serves an agenda that doesn't fit with my politics, .....perhaps its a combination of all 3. Its kind of like living in a cultural void, this is something I'm not sure if I can bear for much longer. I think the only solution maybe to relocate to the far East in the future, I just cant see British Chinese ever creating anything, at least nothing that will match the Far East.
ReplyDelete@anonymous: that link is just more of the same demonizing, i wouldnt worry so much about it. thats what the media is there for - sensationalism. as far that kind of news affecting future generations, i dont think anyone knows the future. just live each day, thats my philosophy, people gripe but no british chinese REALLY gives a shit otherwise there would be more people on this blog.
ReplyDelete@bbcz
personally i think all bbcs should boycott british tabloids and tv programmes and anything to do with british media. if we cant be part of it, why should we contribute to paying for it/wasting our time reading it?
may as well be the blank /invisible culture that we are represented as. in some ways at least thats better than being a whore. not much more, though because it evades a sense of accountability.
re: music ..Most of my time is spent listening to Chinese artists ive discovered online and lots of old HK songs. i dont even watch tv / cinema any more. but when i do itll most probably be an hk one. mind you, the new coproductions arent that great.
british chinese is just a grant grabbing hoop jumping exercise, theres no art to it.
having said that theres no excuse nowadays with youtube for performers and myspace for musicians i just dont think most bbcs are bothered to be honest, unless theres a monetary reward. and probably dont think theres an audience big enough.
so thats factor 1.
factor 2:
many challenges to create socially aware new culture ( if the younger gen were ever to develop a radical outlook:)
1. to create truthfully socially aware music would mean admitting that our british chinese culture is a whore culture and that we have to rebuild but to do that you need to be rebels. and by rebels not in the conventional sense, it would obviously be voicing most of the stuff we gripe about on here.
2. because speaking out/acting out would mean in a way biting the hand that feeds you and never would we do that. no , we'd rather be fed even if that means getting into bed with whitey
3. taking the 'china is better than the uk' tack is equally a challenge because 1. we arent really in touch our chinese culture. and for the last 10years or so hk culture is pretty mediocre and mainland culture is only just learning its own voice. so theres not really anything a bbc artist can draw upon in terms of referencing chinese culture unless he embraces
all 3 factors of:
1. artistically inclined
2. rebellious
3. innovative, in the same way that HK film/ music industry used to be.ie: representing chinese culture in a new way
its a big call, to have to do those 3 bases to be considered culturally important. then nevermind having a team of likeminded people, but id be happy with just 1. for starters.
another gripe: to do the above 3, youd have to have a sense of ego-lessness. for those artists who desire to be accepted by the system and be 'popular' it's not an easy transition to make.
the problem with bbcs and likewise all western -east asian culture in general is that we missed our 'revolution' and now the world is seemingly a better place, full of amazing technology, its up to culture to give it a voice. but instead of activists what do we have? whores haha
Obviously that message hasnt gotten through to some british chinese who are hoping for china to somehow save our arses by buying everything lol
but it doesnt work like that. i had hoped it would at one point but when you look at the amount of tabloid china demonizing..do you really think we can just 'wish it away'?
if we remain invisible will it 'go away'?
i guess so far being apathetic has worked for the british chinese community. for how long? no idea.
CHRIS Li writes :
ReplyDeleteis there a point anymore for developing a BBC 'identity'?
chris li writes:
ReplyDeleteinter-racial marriages often breaks down due to cultural differences. trace THIS back and you'll soon start to look at the individual self, at their upbringing and that they comfort levels are, how they behave living long term with another person of another race.
So yes, they look at their roots, both BBC females AND males.
but we are forgetting one thing. WILL. Will power. are you willing to stay with your spouse, despise and in spite of their differences? those who are no longer 'willing' break up their marriages. this 'WILL' exists right across all the reasons why marriages break down.
if you're WILLING, then you'll work at it.
RE: chris: is there a point anymore for developing a BBC 'identity'?
ReplyDeleteIts called being an ethnic minority for a reason right? The ethnic majority does not represent the interests of the ethnic minority. Whilst I would like to say yes developing a BBC identity is worth it, however I can't see how it can possibly compete with every other minority and majority ethnic culture out there in the UK, certainly too late for us adults as opposed to those that are 10 years old and can wait two more decades for some 'clever' BBC culture to develop. For us, its taken too long already.
Even if we're get our token representation within the mainstream media, it'll probably be fleeting. The fact, this blog and other e-zines eg Dimsum and Neehao can only churn out a handful of articles per month, shows you that there is a cultural vacuum for the British Chinese, otherwise this blog itself would be inundated with multiple articles daily.
@Chris . If BBC identity meant meeting up, eating dimsum, talking about dogs in prams, costs of flight tickets to HK , and the latest iphone and basically drivel talk then yes id say we already have a culture.
ReplyDeleteBut the fact that as western born Chinese we still havent confronted the racial segregation against us and expect the motherland to protect us means that British Born Chinese dont stand for anything except vapid talk.
If you raise BBC kids in this country would you want them to have a cultural identity or just get the same racist shit that has been going on against Chinese in the UK?
Sometimes I think the only reason that BBCS sellout to white British culture is because theyre too scared to curtail against it. British whites are too boisterous and I have to fit in with them otherwise i wont feel british boohoo.
Bottom line is, if you havent developed Ethnic assertiveness ie that people are shitscared of you because you are Chinese, then they will laugh at you. Its been that way and it will continue to be that way.
Then it becomes a test of your individual 'manhood'. So im supposed to respect some poppy wearing white st george brickhead giving me snide slitty eyed remarks because of 'white privelege'? And I need to go the extra distance to shut him up , because if i dont im 'not a man'?
if some stupid beaknosed bitch with her dumb child is standing in my way at the underground ticket machine and i try and get through and she looks at me as if im the idiot for blocking the way and snappily tells me to ' go on then' - should i swallow my anger at her derogatory dismissiveness or should i make a scene about it? and on what grounds? for being 'oversensitive?'
If BBCS are identified for being assertive we wont get shit and other sad cases like Simon San wont happen again.
Very few british whites give a shit about Chinese culture or any culture for that matter.And when all you have is takeaways, nail parlours, and peace loving herbal shops why should they? Its just a multethnic disneyland for them to pick and choose from.
If it wasnt for China in the news everyday we would have it a lot worse. Actually even with China in the news everyday it has arguably made it a lot worse.
We cant rely on China and then not, and can be proud to be Chinese at the olympics and run hiding when a 2yr old gets killed in guangzhou.
Unless you want your bbc child Chris to play the ducking and weaving game, and the next x years of quiet 'keep it bottled inside' Chinese repression then I would say yes its worth developing a BBC culture.
And as long as this blog is alive, theres a chance to be pro-active and plant the seeds of a genuine BBC culture.
Because once it's dead, its back to sucking imperialist cock for the british chinese community.
Chinese culture....
ReplyDeleteWe are losing the battle the injustice that has been cast upon us are overwhelming. We need to act now.
Teach young kids about all this? At Chinese school?
Fobs are clueless when it comes to psychology but I give them the benefit of doubt.
We need to tell parents that it is important that their kids see positive images of people who they look like in the media.
I always come back to this: we need an Internet channel. This is by far the most accessible. Those of you in the know, find out how we can set this up?
Charitable enterprise, social enterprise? I dunk.
We need to raise awareness by aiming programs at parents and kids. We need documentaries on a whole range of things.
Chinese football association
Golf association
Groups of hong kong village events
Organise sports events for kids.
Forget the 15-21 age group for now. Its too late for them.
Interview young kids to give them opppornity to voice whats in their minds.
I'd do it but I need to eat.
Can we find sponsors?
Can we draft up mission statement?
Chris li
Chris - a few suggestions
ReplyDeleteSponsors:
Wing Yip foundation maybe ive been on their site, he just seems to sponsor education. but if you can convince him of the necessity, then great
http://www.wingyip.com/page-550.html
Golf association and sports is not a bad idea to find sponsors too. Just ask the British Chinese who love their golf and their speedboats and you could be onto something.
finding artists/contributors:
www.britishchineseonline.com
there are a few people who could be interested or you can arrange a 'creative' meet up on there.
Mission statement:
'What would you like British Born /British Chinese culture to be?'
Internet Channel:
youtube. its easy to set up a channel, but to deliver regular content to keep people interested.
Id say if you make a few videos and then if it gets a good reaction from the audience, then you can approach sponsors.
Target audience is the main thing though. if you think 15-21 is too old, you have to ask yourself. who are you aiming at? 14 and under? or their parents?
But interviewing kids as to how they see themselves is one way to go about it. Could be a decent start.
Chinese football association good idea
IF you have a younger target audience, then maybe with parental support you could make it family friendly which is one way of making it commercial.
I think from your above you seem to be targeting ethnic Chinese in Britain and their children
chris li :
ReplyDeletethanks for liking my idea.
now, lets get some people and make it happen.
Chris - http://www.facebook.com/groups/britishbornchinese/10150569001086305/?notif_t=group_activity
ReplyDeletethats the bbc facebook page - already spoke to two guys who are starting out in animation, cant remember their names. But just post an ad on there and introduce yourself.
latisha ma is a girl who is doing a documentary on bbcs and she works for some UK independent studio, she posted on there too. so worth sending her a message