Thursday, 23 February 2012

PlayCantonese

TURTLE MOTHERS CAN'T HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT

With British Chinese women inter racially marrying at unprecedented levels (Discussed HERE), just how to do they balance their desire to assimilate into British society without ignominiously bringing shame to their Chinese ancestry?

When an inter racial couple tie the knot, the first dilemma is whether to adopt her husband's surname. Whilst there are Chinese women maintaining their Chinese maiden name, many others happily join the White race by removing all trace of  their Chinese name, E.g. Liberal Democrat's Merlene Emerson. However, there's another group of Chinese women that have developed an alternative solution (see examples below).


Sneered at by some sections of the Chinese community and often castigated by members of their own family, these types of Chinese women are saddled with guilt for marrying a non-Chinese, they fear they are non-filial or being disrespectful to their Chinese tradition, customs and heritage, but at the same time don't want to upset their White husband, the result is an improvised bastardised compromise in the form of a double barrel pseudo-Chinese-western name to save face (i.e Wong-Smith see photograph above). However, this is a false compromise, the Chinese surname/family name is formally passed through the line of the Chinese father and not the mother. The creation of the East-west double barrel name neither conforms to Chinese tradition nor Chinese custom, in creating a pseudo-western-Chinese compromise whether they like it or not, these Chinese women  are treacherously and shamelessly destroying and betraying their Chinese traditional ancestral heritage, they are making up the rules as they go along as a solution to the problems they have created themselves as a consequence of their own selfish decision to break Chinese tradition by marrying a non-Chinese.

But the guilt trip doesn't stop there, complexities are taken to a new level as she reproduces a mixed race child (typically Eurasian) and raises it in the UK, the child adopts the double barrel surname. The poor confused child is given an additional Chinese name (as their middle name) to add to their western name. These shameful turtle mothers believe they can bypass both Chinese customs and the Chinese genetic factor (their hatred of Chinese men by refusing to date, marry or breed with Chinese men) and still reproduce a 'Chinese child' by breeding with a White man and artificially raising the mixed race child to be a 'Chinese' child simply by calling it 'a Chinese baby,' giving it 'a Chinese baby name' and giving it 'Chinese linguistic lessons,' in others words, they want to have their cake and eat it.

A perfect example is Fiona Falcone, a Chinese (BBC) married to an Italian and her article for Dimsum.co.uk. She set up a 'Playcantonese' creche for parents wishing to raise their children in a Chinese Cantonese speaking environment. But why doesn't she herself speak Cantonese to the child at home instead?  Because her Cantonese is too poor and her husband and his family are white and can't speak Cantonese, nor will they ever learn to speak Cantonese.

Be Afraid: The Future of the British Cantonese community - Circled are all non-ethnic Chinese & their mixed race children attending the PlayCantonese creche
She epitomises the mentality of westernised Chinese attitudes in prioritising learning a non-Chinese second language such as Spanish, Italian, French, Latin or English (in FOB's) etc to please their non-Chinese partner, to develop their career or to pass grades....over learning their own Chinese dialect or sub-dialect. Ironically, the article is entitled ‘Keeping Cantonese Alive!’ She lays out the creche's mission objective:
   “I hope (to) keep Chinese language and culture alive so that...in many years to come, my grandchildren will be wondering how to keep Cantonese alive for their children.”
You do not keep Cantonese alive by inter racially marrying with a White man, reproducing a mixed race child and raising it in the UK and still expect your grandchildren to speak Cantonese in two generations time, rather that is how you destroy Cantonese. In two generations time, her grandchildren will not be ethnic Chinese (Discussed here). If you want a Cantonese speaking Chinese child and Cantonese Chinese speaking grandchildren, its quite simple - marry a Chinese man from a Cantonese speaking family,  there is no compromise, you can't have your cake and eat it.
By BBCZeigeist

106 comments:

  1. These women bring shame on their ancestry

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    1. Dont let the turtle mothers have their cake and eat it. We have an obligation as chinese to openly castigate and publicly shame them for their behaviour. Do not let their behaviour become the norm in the UK.

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    2. GO TO THIS LINK ( Cantonese men date and marry more women any Asian men combined)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage


      BBCZeitgeist, Can you stop with your inferior complex lies?
      You say Cantonese women marry white men? THAT'S BULLSHIT.
      Cantonese women are most traditional Chinese with traditional values. Don't compare them with mandarin speaking women who spread their legs in UK and Japan, South Korea either for marriage or prostitution.

      FACTS YOU DID NOT WANT TO MENTION: 44% British Chinese men married White women compared with 56% vice versa. All Chinese hookers in UK are FOBS, and they contribute 1/3 of total White-Chinese marriages in UK and possibly in U.S aswell.

      MORE FACTS: In China, the highest budget movie is an White man and Chinese women. In Shanghai there are TV programs called "American dream boy" or "German dream boy"

      In JAPAN, Mainland Mandarin speaking married 10,000 Japanese men compared with only 1000 vice versa every year

      In SOUTH KOREA, Mainland Mandarin speaking women married 20,000 Korean men, compared with only 2000 every year.

      SO enough with your crap about FOB being brainwashed by western culture. Just because you have inferior complex doesn't mean you need to make other suffer for your high level insecurity, and PLEASE don't call yourself Cantonese.
      Just because HK people speak Cantonese doesn't mean they are all Cantonese. And just because your parents assimilated with the Cantonese community doesn't make you a true Cantonese either.

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    3. haha. You're funny. Please tell me, in your opinion, what is a true Cantonese?

      Btw, I've replied to your statistics here...
      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2012/03/british-born-chinese-marriage.html?showComment=1332179610651#c966310533401581329

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    4. Umm a true Cantonese is a true Cantonese. Not all British Chinese are Cantonese. There are 500,000 Chinese in UK, with 350,000 - 400,000 Cantonese speakers. Some of these Cantonese speakers are also from other assimilated Chinese dialect groups due to the lack of other Chinese language schools they bring these kids to Cantonese schools. There is also an recent large numbers of mandarin and hokkien migrants in the UK, majority of these are women. There is some good number of variation dialect speakers in UK but they are insignificant if you separate them into dialect groups. From what I know roughly 72% of HK people are Cantonese, the rest are made up of other Han Chinese background but are assimilated into the HK identity. The same would apply to the BBC Chinese, some of these BBC of HK origin are not Cantonese.

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    5. When ever there is Chinese migrants in UK, there is always more women than men, this is an sign that there will be more FOB women marriage than men aswell. In 2001 Mandarin speakers use to make up for 12,000, Hokkien speakers 6000, 10,000 Hakka and 8,000 other variation of Chinese speakers lived in UK along with 300,000 Cantonese. This doesn't mean marriages are strictly with BBC Chinese or Canto BBC. Think of it like this. While it mentioned 14%:30% married out. The total number of these interracial marriages is properly only 10,000. Given the Chinese population in UK is only 500,000. For example the were was 270000 marriages in Britain in 2007 but the fact is the population of England was 65 million.

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    6. When I said it 14%:30% married out, I was referring to Chinese men/women who married out. The total number of these interracial marriages is properly only 10,000. While the total Chinese marriage of BBC each year is around 40,000

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    7. Incorrect, the census figures were taken in 2001 with a chinese population of 247,403 (http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/self-hating-chinese-women-part-3.html)
      500,000 is the most recent guestimate some 10 years after 2001 census. We don't have the official new census figures yet.

      Your figures of 10,000 and 40,000 are completely inaccurate and can be dismissed because we don't have the most important sets of statistics that are required - see link below...

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2012/03/british-born-chinese-marriage.html?showComment=1332562290675#c5926050644882192129

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    8. 1. I never once said 500,000 was from 2001

      2. Anyone with some level of basis commonsense can tell you just by adding up numbers of Cantonese, Mandarin, hakka, hokkien and other small minority dialects group wouldn't even make up for 400,000

      3. Your census figures for 2001 is 247,403. However this news from telegraphic from April 2001 Claimed about "300,000 Chinese people live in Britain. "
      ----> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1316043/Chinese-hit-by-backlash-from-racist-rumours.html

      ALSO...you said my figures are completely inaccurate, yes you could be right because I don't have an source and I never once said they were accurate, it's just an estimate based on the number of total marriages in UK base on the fact that in 2007 there was 270000 marriages out of 65 million people. So naturally you would assume that ethnic minority like Chinese in UK would only make up for an few percentages of marriages among the 270,000 figure.

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    9. cantonese is just like the ebonics of the chinese language.

      ebonics is the dialect or vernacular form of American English spoken by a large proportion of African Americans. it developed from contacts between African langauges and nonstandard varieties of colonial English spoken by white americans in the southern states(the cotton plantation states where the african slaves worked). ebonics is used in the home or for day-to-day communication rather than for formal occasions. It typically diverges most from standard American English when spoken by people with low levels of education.

      cantonese is a dialect of chinese spoken by a large proportion of ppl living in the southern most area(guangdong and guangxi) of china. it is developed from contacts between southern indigenous languages (such as vietnamese, zhuang, tai,etc) and nonstandard colloquial chineses spoken by migrant chinese(such as soldiers and prisoners) from central china since china conquered the northern part of the old vietnam 2000yrs ago. its accent and spoken form is more influenced by the indigenous languages as the chinese migrants married the southern indigenous women and their children’s speech is more influenced by their mother’s tongue than father’s(and which is why cantonese accent sounds closer to vietnamese and thai than other chinese dialects). they adopt the written form of standard chinese as none of the indigenous languages had developed a written form. as a result the spoken form and the written form have never been compatible. vietnamese used to adopt chinese characters for writing before the french came.

      cantonese not only sounds unpopular to foreign ears. it has always been the least respected dialect in china and its accent is often mocked meanspiritedly. the connotations tagged on cantonese have hardly ever been positive.

      despite hong kong’s success has little to do with the cantonese language or its culture, the glory might have given a bit twist of fate for cantonese but its destined to be only delusional and short-lived unless the cantonese ppl can upgrade their gene pool to become aesthetically appealing enough to project cultural influences to the other chinese. it has never happened in the last 2000 years though.

      that says much about the worth of cantonese pride.

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    10. ^ Oh look it's the Northern Chinese copy and paste machine that got raped by a Southern Chinese.Hello.

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    11. The ratio of marriage between British Chinese men married to White women VS British Chinese women married to White men isn't really that big.

      33,000 British born Chinese men married to White women VS
      42,000 British born Chinese women married White men

      However the ratio between foreign born Chinese men married to White women VS Foreign born Chinese women married to White men has a large margin and clearly a huge gap.

      2200 Foreign born Chinese men married to white British women VS
      13,000 Foreign born Chinese women married to white British men.

      Delete
  2. That dim sum website which i dont visit anymore, should be called a turtle mothers support network and stop presenting itself under the guise that it is for the british chinese community which it cares f..k all. It also stop BBCs from evolving as a collective but into a Gokwank messed-up culture. I have no problem with mixed raced etc, but the erosion of BBC identity. Why don't the above mentioned go to an italian school and learn italian which I am sure the she and kid will love and talk about it in an italian community website?
    Anyway give readers a chance to comment, argue discuss etc blog laters.

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    Replies
    1. As the article explains, these types of Chinese women want to have their cake and eat it.

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  3. 'hatred for Chinese men'. Because every Chinese woman who ends up with a white guy surely HATES Chinese men's guts. You're so exaggerate it's ridiculous.

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    1. 'hatred for Chinese men'. Because every Chinese woman who ends up with a white guy surely HATES Chinese men's guts. You're so exaggerate it's ridiculous.

      THIS

      And wut about Hakka families! damn we lost the clan wars but we are still chinese nah?

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    2. I read an article about the clan wars, it was interesting

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    3. http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2010/08/self-hating-chinese-women-part-3.html

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  4. Why do you attack just the mothers? How about the fathers? Why don’t you sign your articles?

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    1. See bottom of article: Posted by ..."....."

      Which are you refering to? Chinese males or non-Chinese males?

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    2. These are trivial and obvious points that of course can be debated, should u wish so it is an open blog afterall. but the main point of this blog is that BBC representation is being undermined in the UK. I have no problem with race or mixed race relationships, but with racism or the undermining of Chinese representation SOMETIMES by chinese/gob/hapas themselves. Take American Asian journalists/thinktanks who are able to give a voice to ABC interests, like arguing B&J fortune cookie flavour ice cream is racist, which they apologised immediately and prevented from production. BBCs like me in UK needs that equivalent voice and empowerment. If this blog does that in leading towards that, that can't be a bad thing, because other websites serve only their self interests and not as claimed the chinese community.

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    3. If the points are trivial and obvious, why don't you take them into account and change your post and comments? You are not doing BBCs any favours with your narrow minded, racist and misogynist comments. What you are doing is spreading hate and revealing your insecurities.

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    4. Really? I don't so.

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    5. BBC's need to be political and putspoken. The BBC sell outs that have no opinions about anything beyond watching anime and playing word games on FB and deliberately suppressing and sabotaging debate do not have the interests of the future of the BBC community at heart. If you follow them , your grandchildren will be white black, indian etc and speaking languages such as Gujarati.

      Chinese males inter racially marrying has already been discussed in other articles, though not as a whole article, notably here....
      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2011/03/mixed-race-chinese-those-of-chinese.html

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    6. It takes an intellectual article to draw intellectual debate. No one tries to debate with the crazy-fella walking around in the nude with the sandwich board proclaiming the end of the word is around the corner.

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    7. HappyBritishChinese4 March 2012 at 16:05

      Unfortunately when your Chinese cultural identity has been sold out so badly, unlike most ethnic groups in the UK, sell out British Chinese refuse to investigate the truth of their own cultural identity so that only cake recipes and spelling games can be considered 'worth talking about,' or be defined as BBC 'culture.' A cultural group that cannot even intellectually define their own culture, cannot have intellectual viewpoints worth listening to. To the point that white trolls that post on here have more opinions than BBC'ers about their own identity is extremely sad. Because as you and I know, white intellectuals seem to think they know everything about everyone

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    8. @AnonymousMar 4, 2012 07:38 AM

      'Why do you attack just the mothers? How about the fathers? Why don’t you sign your articles?'

      The main reason chinese men have children with white women is the bruce lee stereotype and the white is normal attitude in the UK.

      Though that's equally not a good answer, Chinese men ( and call it Asian if you want to get into the whole asian american thing) white women typically dont find chinese men desirable due to negative anti-Chinese imagery, and China only recently being a superpower hasnt changed that. With BBC women largely going for non-BBC men, where does that leave the men?

      So it's really up to the individual to make amends as BBC men dont have white privelege nor any media that presents strong attractive chinese males. This is socially enforced social engineering.

      Chinese women, they have been outbreeding for two generations now so it's been accepted as the norm. For other ethnic groups in the uk its an issue but for us, it isnt - so the only option for BBC men is to marry FOBS. Or non-Chinese.

      Britain has become a breeding ground for hapas through no fault of the men , but with , as the stats show UK interacial marriage ratio for CF to XM is double than CM to XF- complete fault of the BBC women.

      And no other ethnic group has this problem. It's purely an authentic situation within the attitude of Chinese/BBC females.

      And no this is not a whinge, its a fact. With this imagery, without a group of BBC women friends, BBC men just have to look elsewhere. But for the BBC community or British Chinese community aforementioned breeding ground just make us LOOK like a bunch of sellouts, even though a lot of us actually are.
      Finally why do you hide behind an anonymous ID?

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  5. What do you think then?

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  6. I just find it amusing that their reaction and the fact they have absolutely no counter argument whatsoever against the article beyond posting childish irrelevant off-topic anti-Chinese comments against their own race or against me- when they know absolutely nothing about me! Throw mud against a shadow on the wall!

    It is an admission of guilt, they know the article is too truthful and too painful to face, we can only pity BBCs that follow the white wash trail

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  7. If you are determined to preserve Chinese culture, why don't you go and live there instead of in the UK? Speaking as someone with a racially Chinese wife, and a half Chinese son I can only say that you are a sad, pathetic imbecile who couldn't get either a Chinese, or English or mix-raced girlfriend. Stop trying to upset people and failing - Loser.

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    1. You amuse me. Asiaphile white man + glasshouse + brick = http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2011/03/asiaphile-asian-fetish-asiaphilia.html

      Ironic, If Chinese did that, you'd have no Chinese wife to marry and no turtle son to raise.

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    2. Talk about missing the point. We are BRITISH CHINESE. Nationality British, ethnically Chinese. It isn't about culture, but heritage, genetics, our roots. Blacks, asians, latinos of all backgrounds who live in a nation that is not ancestrally their home, but now in recent times- have the urge to retain that culture. "Go live there" is a common response but so far wide off the mark...because they would just be Chinese. I'm sure Chinese culture is doing fine in China.

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    3. You have got the loser part right. Ethnic Chinese are losing big time. That is why things must change.

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    4. I just wanted to joke, we all know his intended racist meaning, many Chinese have had such comments said to them at some point by White people. Its the same comment islamophobes use against British muslims - "if you don't like our British way of way, go back home to where you came from," even though these muslims were born in the UK.

      All these anti-Chinese comments which I've removed try to deny Chinese diaspora the right to preserve their culture. You must assimilate! You must dissolve your race! You are British you must marry white/black/indian! If you don't want to marry white/black/indian and have mixed race children and assimilate into another race, you're racist and should go back to china! So much for British multi-culturalism! British multi-culturalism inevitably does not respect differences in people.

      I understand White people holding such views but these comments telling Chinese to go back to China were mostly posted by BBCs! These types of BBCs are so whitewashed, their views are indistinguishable from those of white people. Indeed, their reactions speak volumes, rather progressing their identity and their ethnic position in society, they rather want to dissolve themselves into another ethnicity.

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  8. Do all mixed kids look like they have Down's Syndrome or is it just the unfortunate Italian Chinese baby one in the pic?

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    1. Silly comment, should be removed, trying to stir trouble, diverting attention from the REAL issues. All people mixed race or not, of all ages and creeds are beautiful in their own way, let's NOT take the bait and get into a slagging match so someone comes in and floods the debate with the narcissim and self-promotion crap theatre CV. Stick to the issues which are undermining BBC identity and BBC interests living in the UK. ABCs have a community empowerment that is non-existent in the UK.

      As mentioned when people in the US take the mick for example, Jeremy Lin by cashing in on a new fortune cookie ice cream flavour, the ABC community stood up in numbers and complained, the company ceased production immediately and apologised, that won't happen in the UK with the existing lame Chinese community organisations whose interests are suspect and seem only to be interested in headhunting sell-out Lisa Chan type actors who have no qualms in demeaning Chinese representation, which thanks to ABC community had put a stop to it. She correctly apologised as well. we need to take a leaf out from the ABC thinktanks to see how they achieved that, that maybe the path to go, if there is enough interest it's worth it, no one wants their kids to be racially bullied and called chin*y at school, well maybe Gokwan doesn't mind.

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    2. HappyBritishChinese4 March 2012 at 16:18

      There has to be enough of us on here signing up for google ID's, contributing articles, to agree that BBC identity is worth saving/protecting, once we have an organised body, then we look at media representation. But until you get past first base...its the same as usual, gossip, backstabbing, denialists, crabs in a bucket. But you know that already, unlike those sell out lurkers who read this article and can;t hack the truth. In this respect hapa kids only have their parents to blame for racial discrimination. But at least they have a cultural identity- they are eurasian. British Born Chinese are just wannabe eurasians

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    3. You need to contribute, not just post comments. On the discussion, it is doubtful you'll find one BBC who would consider 'fortune cookie' to be an offensive negative stereotype, it appears to be 'American' thing. Also its not inconceivable that Jeremy Lin would actually take up an offer to advertise Ben and Jerry's fortune cookie flavor if he was paid enough

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    4. good BBC blog, good points made i don;t agree with everything said. The empahsis that contributing solely here and getting an ID as a rejoiner serves mainly to empower this niche blog rather than a broader BBC collective. Thinking head if this blog was to get big then there will be other blogs to counter it maybe from hapas revenge or BBC girl frivolous nonsense. i agree that takking advice from asian-american think tanks isn't a bad idea if we have the shared common cause of defending chinese negative racist depiction/identity, much of the early black politics began that way, but changed when UK black communities found a stronger empowering voice and representation, funny how many UK black intellectuals now reside in US, Gilroy, Phillips etc. Not saying BBCs will necessary follow. I don't think disgruntled voices are al trivial, there are some gems, they are the morsels to nourish great ideas. I am not Marxist, but have read history, Marx at the end of the day was just a writer of ideas.

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    5. happybritishchinese4 March 2012 at 16:45

      As I know this blog is the only one that serves as a voice for speaking the truth about BBC culture. And its possible for someone else to start up a separate facebook page and use the issues here as a reference point. But the question is who? To address fighting out against negative Chinese depiction would take people with initiative. Asian Americans havent really done much either, basically they have a bunch of kids, creating youtube videos and some bit actors. Its just the youtube culture has fooled a lot of BBCs into thinking its the land of milk and honey.

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    6. There is no such thing as truth but versions of truth which are contested. if you subscribe to left politics then it is the powerful etc that enforce their version of truth, but that is an intellectual debate unlikely to be discussed here. Chinese ppl have nice jobs or a happy family wont waste or jeopardise that for the sake of ignorant gokwan utterances. as to address fighting out negative depiction etc blah blah, in the past there have bee attempts to do so but IMo have gone about it the wrong way and without professionism, don't like saying that but also without charisma and convincing rhetoric

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    7. As wing previously said, Asian Americans have a bigger advantage, they have good scholars and money to fund diaspora research. many points we make on the blog are influenced by Asian American diaspora academic/literary writing. We simply dont have that in the UK. No UK scholar will dare expressly or implicity label someone a race traitor like Frank Chin or Gloria Chun, the British Chinese scholars would never do so because 1) most have white/inter racial partners 2) they'd be sacked 3) most are FOB's who graduated in the Far East and don't understand BBC issues.

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    8. Agreed with this. Our comments are just ideas, powerful but without action amounts to nothing. To have such influence as AsianAms in the US, we need thinktanks, political pressure groups, ethnic Chinese media promoting our own cause, Show the others that we are no walkovers. And for all those, we need funding, and people in power respect that cause. We need to petition local businesses, ethnic Chinese with positions of responsibility or power - business, doctors, politicians, lawyers, journalists even - see if they can either financially contribute or help setup things that can gradually improve the situation for us in the UK. Maybe we could take advice/contributions from Asian American groups across the pond - after all, they have the experience and the connections, right?

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    9. happybritishchinese4 March 2012 at 17:26

      The first step is to convince ourselves it's worth doing. Because the more BBC believe in BBC political identity the better, obviously. That doesnt cost a penny. So if you have time, I suggest you go on the BBC facebook page and do it. And im not talking just one post, i mean real dialogue. See what kind of reaction you get. Let us know when you've made some headway.

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    10. No, because that is not how "people work. The majority even if its the majority of a community, ALWAYS go the path of least resistance. The most comment, populist or easiest solution. The fact there is NO alternative voice for BBC's to be guided by, so they whatever they were brought up with. i.e stick with whitewashed culture. if you need to ask if its worth setting up before setting something up, it's a lost cause already, and I imagine many of history's social movements will never have happened... civil rights... even white supremacy - all borne from the few, now picking up momentum because they there for those are looking for an alternative

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    11. Being Chinese can practically express itself in 2 ways. race and language.for bbcs who shouldnt be expected to speak chinese, the last thing we have is our race. if you are haemorraging the race, then as a bbc you have nothing left. how much discipline will there be enforced for the children to learn the language if their own mother has sold out? Play cantonese is just a fanciful business based on the exotica of a chinese language with no practical benefit except treating chinese language as an exotic appendage. such women who promote this , act purely out of self interest , deluded white privelege ,their children are just vanity projects, products of deluded white privelege. that they are esteemed in the uk as hapas is only because the uk promotes it. Its bad enough that bbcs are berated by FOBS for not speaking chinese language, but having half chinese children and then teaching them to learn it? The former is of no fault of their own, thesecond is just genocidal pisstake.

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    12. In other words, what good are the few if the masses refuse to admit the gaping hole in our identity? That theres such a huge response to this article having been posted on the facebook page, shows that we know its a matter of concern even though people as usual want to save face and dont care to admit it.

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    13. HBC, that is basic marxist principles, organisation is the key, but solidarity comes first or as an A level student would put it.....homogeneity, self-consciousness for social change to occur, that's why I'm not convinced by your entertaining ramblings, good intentions as they might be.

      Its a blog and not serious enough for me to take it seriously. The fact you diss everyone won't do solidarity that you seek any favours.

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    14. If your so oversensitive to hear basic much needed criticism towards the British Chinese 'identity' whether its from me or from anyone else, and misconstrue it for dissing, if you are a BBC maybe it's not you we are trying to convince.

      And if you are from the facebook board, you are a fine one to talk about dissing. From what ive seen recently you people are so self obsessed and paranoid about some mystery 'triad' facebooker who cant even be bothered to reply to your nonsense gossiping

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  9. happybritishchinese4 March 2012 at 16:22

    Interesting that Bourgeois BBC sell out women suddenly became 'Champions of Chinese culture' - ironic as your cake and eat it article points out, but even comical because most Chinese women are apolitical about cultural heritage. Now suddenly they stand up for Chinese culture by starting a play Cantonese business? Like Amy chua Tiger mother - and all other self-serving sell out chinese authors jung chang etc...profiting from orientalism and promoting hapas leaving bbcs invisible. Sound familiar?

    Here's reality- 'racist' if we mock eurasianism, and at the same time no one wants to support genuine effort towards BBC cultural development. So we settle for invisibility and then look to Asian Americans for substitute culture. When BBC's dont stand for anything significant, we shouldnt expect anything significant either.

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  10. I don't think you guys need to worry. This generation of women who outbreed do not do it out of hatred rather it is jealousy that they are not given the 'respect' they think they deserve because the Chinese populace simply cannot understand them!

    The other reason is deep insecurity, unable to attain high status in our society they then try to leverage their 'oriental doll' image on Caucasians - that way at least in their twisted mind they can get 'respect.' But as we see this is no longer good enough as:

    1) the west and by proxy its males are seen as bankrupt losers, whilst China and by proxy its men are seen as winners. largest FX in the world, #2 economy in the world, maker of top end cars-thats no mean feat. So the fals immage of 'superior' Caucasian male is dying fast

    2) In your face proof: the Euro-Chinese offspring look terrible in comparision to the all Chinese girls. See Amy Chua's 2 kids - beauties they ain't. Won't be long now when we see the Chan-Carpenters change to pure CHAN!

    In Chinese there is a custom which allows taking the Mom's name.

    How is the Caucasian going to stop this when he is counter accused of racism and sexism should he object? HAHAHA

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    1. Oh we're having a field day, first miss Zeity , now MR.propaganda. Welcome back.

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  11. Have you heard the latest British East Asian road movie about a British Chinese woman with a white husband who embarks on a 100mile journey to take their Eurasian son to a Chinese creche?

    The move is called Guilt trip!

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    1. happybritishchinese4 March 2012 at 17:06

      Haha classic

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    2. Did you hear about the chinese girl who fancies Italian Costacondordia men, it didn't go down very well.

      Haha that a prawn kracker, its the way i tell em

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    3. lol .. thats poor taste.. BBC stand up comedy. Can only dream.

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  12. I've noticed this a lot, I recall an episode on Channel 4 of some home renovation building, a half Chinese girl featured and they interviews her Chinese mother, saying that it is her culture and race that has made daughter into such a driven woman. Which explains why she married a white guy to destroy that heritage, eh...if you look at recent and settled immigrants alike, they are pains to retain their culture onto the next generation whilst they become more integrated - indeed, it is their main focal point and a subject deep in many minorities hearts. Except British women. For such a 'clever race,' our women seem to fall at the obvious step...they desperately want to cling onto our roots, so what better way to do that than to have kids with a non-Chinese! Any feeble attempts to regain that culture is lost... there is no greater sacrifice than to sellout your genes for the future. let's face facts, and to all those Chinese women reading this - in 1 or 2 generations time, they won't be Chinese. I guess that's what they're unconsciously hoping for, no matter what they do afterwards. The real Chinese women who wish to retain their Chinese heritage actually have Chinese children. Simple, isn't it?

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    1. I must add it IS partially Chinese men's fault...again look at every other race, from (Asian, esp Muslims)to a few men from another race dating women of theirs, they end to react in a rather hostile manner - through intimidation, violence or otherwise. I'm not saying that Chinese men should do this, but the fact is that non-Chinese men are with Chinese women on a massive scale - 50:50 ratio, compared to 90:10 ratio in other races - at most. Why are we not as resistant to this is anyones guess. We already see here, a FEW chinese women decide 'oh I'll have a double barrelled name' rather than the full white name - to save face with family or Chinese friends. A compromise. Yet in other communities we have the entire community shunning such women, cutting off contacts/their social network, through to threats and of course violence. When the most the Chinese community can dish out is "evil eyes," is it no wonder that other races see our women as easy catches.

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    2. if we want BBC males to develop a 'backbone' to defend our women, we need to create dialogue about it . if there are some BBC couples that are happy, let them come on here and write articles about it – if BBC women want protection dont they think they should at least come on here and discuss it? If the blogs too extremist then start up a female political blog! Just dont make it dimsum the 2nd otherwise we will post another turtle mum article in response! What other ethnic group in the world has this problem to such a huge extent? May as well start reproducing with dolphins and call that offspring british chinese community because thats about how much respect we have for ourselves.
      Fact is despite the irony of a controversial article like this NOONE will have signed up for a google ID, NOONE will have the balls to contribute articles as to how they want themselves to have seen.NOONE will have done anything except the usual bitching and moaning on the facebook boards about their cake recipies being interrupted by the posting of our articles , and when the dust settles – its onto the next piece of gossip.
      To the sellouts this is just another gossip blog – right? Well GOOD. Because thanks to BBC political apathy the 'gossip' on here will get a lot worse before it gets any better. Get the popcorn ready people! Time to dig in!

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    3. youre missing the point, its not the BBC women who should think they need protection before it comes to them. Do you think asian,muslim, white, black women ask for protection. No, the men "protect" them whether they like it or not- because they know that to even think the women need to ask first is further proof that we dont have backbone - protectionism isn't about asking nicely.

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    4. When your own women BBC women that is, dont want to be protected and are charmed away by the white is normal social engineering, combined with lack of a strong media for bbc males ( ie we are invisible), anti—chinese racism, FOB dominated British Chinese community, and geographical dispersity, without individual initiative, and 100% apolitical British Chinese sellout attitude how the hell do all BBC women expect all BBC males to protect them and stop them from interbreeding? Its like a child going to play with matches and despite his dad telling him not to, blames his dad afterwards saying that he should have told him so.
      In most cases the child will never admit he's wrong and still blame the father, spoilt little shit that he is.
      Unfortunately its the selfish action of those culprits and the general selfish attitude of chinese in general with their family only focus and lack of political backbone that when stuff like this gets put under the microscope, suddenly everyone wants someone else - in this case - the men to come up with all the answers. The solution is simple. We are ALL involved. Therefore we are ALL responsible. Stop looking to others to do the dirty work or for instant fixes, this isnt playschool. Or play cantonese school for that matter. BBCS should learn to Grow the fuck up and stop acting like spoilt children. Cake and eat it too is right. Pathetic.

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    5. That'll be difficult, HBC, do you remember the last time you mentioned protectionism? Read the Crystal Chan article comments again as a reminder of the BBC females response along of the lines of..."You sexist, misogynistic swine!"

      The modern BBC female considers herself on a par with her liberated white counterpart.

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    6. Ha. Yeah I remember now, I think I said its natural for us men to want to protect our women and thats when she called me a sexist misogynistic swine. Brilliant. Damned if you do damned if you dont.

      If BBC women dont take more pride you cant expect the men to follow suit, because unlike other ethnic group the cards have been set up in favour the benefit of BBC women.

      Unfortunately that 'benefit' is a pandora's box. Once its opened you cant close it. Unless BBC women consciously make an effort not to be seduced by white liberalism, and take responsibility for their actions, very little anyone else can do. British Chinese identity is f-cked! HAHAHA thanks ladies

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    7. May I ask, Happybritishchinese, what is "British Chinese Identity". Some are mixing white liberalism, others mention British Chinese Identity. If there is a British Chinese Identity, is it new? Can you try and put a description to that? I'm not attacking your comments in case you fly off the handle, I sincerely want to know if you can write about it.

      I see the words respect bandied about a lot, especially about the older generation and parents, but then I see some negative comments about Chinese FOB parenting by the same few that want more respect of the elders. What can British Chinese Identity mean, because if it's bits I've seen here, it's a hotch-potch of double standards. SF.

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    8. It's not easy to put a description to it thanks to the rules that have already been set up ie: Eurasians who are considered as the overwhelming representation of most UK Chinese in media, BBCs who speak Cantonese to varying degrees,FOBS that consider themselves British Chinese, but some cannot speak a word of English and could care less about having a British ethnic social identity.

      But simply, British Chinese identity means Ethnic Chinese who want to develop a British Chinese english speaking social identity who use the English language to communicate, whilst respecting both Mandarin and Cantonese speaking roots.

      The reality however is that thanks to overwhelming Eurasian white privilege multicultural representation and FOBS who cannot speak a lick of the english language,and could care less about a social identity, its only the minority - British Born Chinese social identity, that is worth developing. And even then, we are a minority.

      Regarding your negative FOB parenting comments, thats up to BBCs to make the most of the cards we have been dealt, regardless.

      For those BBCs that are fluent in Cantonese and English, its dual identity. However that still doesnt solve the British ethnic social identity issue. It just means you are an inbetweener of two cultures, contributing little social development towards neither of them.Which is what most BBCs have opted for.Resorting to a lame social identity:

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/british-chinese-online-forum.html

      Obviously if you are serious about developing a British ethnic social identity, then you develop both your Chinese roots and your British ethnic social identity.

      Being that however there are increasingly more BBCs that are mandarin speakers, the English language is the one that we use to develop our British ethnic Social identity. Unless Mandarin speakers want to start learning Cantonese, or Cantonese speakers want to learning Mandarin? And whilst by doing that builds bridges between BBCs and the FOB community, ultimately a British Chinese leader would be best to speak both Cantonese, Mandarin and have a good sense of British Chinese social issues. There are BBCs who can speak all 3, but I dont know anyone who has the interest of a united British Chinese community with the conviction to speak out for the social issues that affect ethnic Chinese in the UK.

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    9. Happybritishchinese, so in essence, the Chinese are just as fragmented amongst themselves. These tugging of North South and Mandarin and Cantonese, I can't see how that can be bridged inside one generation.

      You paint a very complex mix of "ethnic social identity" via English language. Perhaps the BBC should be a little like Hawaii where is a strong Pidgin dialect built from time that merges to languages together. Only then can that be regarded a true BBC identity.

      Personally, I believe that is light years away because of the gap between mainlanders and BBCs here. BBCs want to avoid learning Mandarin, and the Mandarin speakers are often arrogant and regard Mandarin as 'the' language. Couple that with different taste in pop music, I think BBCs in numbers on their own will be swept under the carpet from the sheer numbers of new mainlanders living here. SF.

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    10. Yes British Chinese is an identity in flux, Cantonese speakers both in the UK and, from what I read in the news, in HK are getting out-numbered by mandarin speakers, but that doesnt stop us from as I say using the English language as a practical tool to enable us to communicate with each other. Im not sure about the Hawaiian pidgin dialect, it sounds interesting but with such a fast flux , for British Chinese, practicality is the most important thing of all. Maybe throw in the odd Cantonese slang now and again, but as I said before its creating the communication that is most important of all.

      Re Mandarin, a lot of younger ABCS and im assuming BBCs are taking up mandarin, so this will obviously count more in the future, but for now, we need to accept that English is how we communicate in public, and alternating between Chinese language how we communicate to our respective tribes.

      Take a look at this thread, Pete a Mandarin speaking BBC made a good comment.

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/british-chinese-identity.html

      As you can see, from his perspective, we all have common issues, that are less to do with language. Its important that ethnic Chinese in the UK build as many bridges to each other, using English and either additional dialect to communicate with those who are unable to speak Engliish, or say a Hong Kong Chinese refusing to communicate in English to a Mandarin out of pride, despite both choosing to relocate to the UK to live lol.

      Obviously because of our Chinese intraverted tendencies, we stick to our own groups etc, but if there were more events or media etc to encourage communication and interaction, to create a British Chinese dialogue, whatever dialect would emerge, would happen naturally. Again it's useless predetermining everything, we just have to make it happen first.

      Either way, the goal is to give ethnic Chinese in the UK a more powerful presence and voice.

      Theres another subconscious issue I think Chinese have with being British Chinese, a lot of which has to do with this

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/military-wives-xmas-no-1-2011.html

      TBH i dont even think a lot of BBCS are even aware of it. Or if they are dont really care, unsuprising, given how apolitical some are.

      What Im trying to say is, yes our parents immigrated here due to comfort better life etc, but on the next stage up on Maslows Hierarchy of Needs is social identity which when it comes to BBCs creates confusion, for this very reason.

      However this obstacle can be overcome by communicating with each other and creating a base of communication/ understanding between ethnic Chinese in the UK.

      As I may have said before Asian American FOBS do not have a problem with communicating with each other in English, why do British Chinese FOBS?

      It's getting to the point that Chinese language is the only ticket that allows you to consume and interbreed with all that is western and call yourself a proud Chinese. Hilarious, or what?

      This is the danger of allowing ourselves to treat ourselves and our culture as negotiable commodity. And for that we have and are paying for it.

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  13. Turtle mother right here: Remember TingLan Hong and Hugh Grant?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/mar/16/hugh-grant-hacking-pirates-film?newsfeed=true

    "He chose his daughter's English name, Tabitha; her mother chose a Chinese name, and Grant has been given a Chinese language book for beginners."

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    1. Whiteworshipping FOB + hugh bourgouisis grant. Id say write an article but ive seen/read enough about hapa for one week, thanks.

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  14. it is actually true that more and more BBC are marrying whites, not something I personally agree with as it is usually the professional chinese that marry professional whities which further dilutes the IQ of the remaining chinese in the UK.

    Part of the problem is a lack of cohesiveness amongst chinese in the UK, we are split and one day we like the arabs will be exploited, if we havent been already.

    If we all had a more common value other than earning money and playing on the nintendo it would be easier.

    One way to dampen the blow would be make this site much more official and professional, not just a blog to set up an online community that EVERYONE goes to the mailanderns the BBCs the hongkongers, all of them, dim sum is to fairy and doesnt address the issue.

    BBCZeitgeist - a challenge for you to set up a site - I would help

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    1. Wai, I agree with what you say, but Dimsum is a good example of Chinese pluralism and look at it!?

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  15. I think you are being too opinionated and biased. I think what Fiona is doing is great and it is within her freedom to do the right thing for her child. I think you need to stop picking on people. Love knows of no boundaries, be it race or sex.

    I am a mother, and have been very inspired by Fiona's work. PlayCantonese is an environment not just for learning cantonese but also to meet other chinese people. I do not see anything wrong with that.

    Your comments are lowering, belittling as well as degrading. Very narrow minded. Instead of belittling people's efforts in keeping Cantonese maybe you should encourage the use of Cantonese.

    If you are Cantonese, then you really don't know the roots of being happy '開心' to have an open heart. Open your heart!

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    1. I have no problems with the Chinese creche per se, rather its the motive. Its a typical motive of Chinese Turtle mothers (+ Chinese turtle fathers) who marry whites and raise Eurasian children, they create all kinds of problems and collectively through their shameful actions are changing the face of both the ethnic Chinese community and Chinese family tradition.

      They then have the audacity to claim they are champions of Chinese culture by raising non-ethnic Chinese bastardised Eurasian children to be 'Chinese' and 'Cantonese' by creating another bastardised solution such as this creche to legitimise their actions in attempt to save their own shamed face.

      As I've said many times before, the role of the media is to critically scrutinise society. This is the British Chinese media, therefore we critically scrutinise British Chinese society. No Chinese person, male or female, rich or poor should be free from criticism.

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    2. Open your heart! And your legs! For the white man! Let the cute little hapa turtle pop out! Cantonese learning Tiger mum style! And where's that delicious Chinese cake? Don't forget to eat it too!

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    3. LOL

      What a prawn cracker retort!

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    4. haha. I didnt see that until now. thats funny.

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  16. By the way, she does speak Cantonese to her baby!!!!!! What the hell are you reading?

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    1. Baby? You mean turtle son.

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    2. It's a proud day for the British Chinese community when the only ones left are a bunch of Eurasian Chinese language speakers.

      Chinese pride FTW!

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  17. Questions first. The thread starter needs to be sure that this Fiona whatever doesn't speak perfect Cantonese. Can he prove that? There seems to be a thing here about ethnics unable to speak their dialects properly. After all, English is spoken in numerous countries by non-whites too. So does that make those who speak it fakes? Certainly sounds like that.

    You could argue, by having so many countries speaking and writing English, the traditions of the language has remained strong. Why not the same for Cantonese for example. Isn't this a total minority dialect in China? Perhaps it requires a little positive discrimmination to allow it to florish and grow. Why must it only be claimed by Ethnics? Unless, it's purely based on the fact that the child's mother doesn't speak perfect Cantonese or none at all. Do we have proof?

    Anyone here attended the regulatory Saturday/Sunday Schools? You know the type, extra school day to learn and write Chinese characters. Honestly, anyone? If you did, how many can string a hand written letter without copying from anything as a guide? I'm curious.

    I for one can say I'm not perfect. I didn't try hard enough, and my parents caved in to my constant moans on extra school days. So for example, if I push my own child to learn, does that make me a fake? Or is it actually fake if you happen to marry another colour other than yellow. SF.

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    1. That depends how important it is to you to speak your Chinese family language, if it means nothing to you, then by all means go marry white, assimilate and dissolve your heritage, but dont call yourself Chinese. What you dont do however, in the case of our Fiona, she let it slip all the years, because being Chinese it meant nothing to her, its only until she gave birth to a turtle, that the guilt trip of bringing shame to her ancestry started. In the original article (theres a link if you bothered to click it), she says...

      "I am a BBC, with patchy Cantonese, married to an Italian, living in London. We planned to speak 3 languages at home but, cooing at my little baby, I realised I was going to have to do some work to hold up my end of the language bargain. I started by making the massive brain switch and committing myself to always speaking Cantonese to the baby. As each day progressed my existing Cantonese became more fluent but I realised I was filling in for vocabulary gaps by circumventing words (‘arrogant’ became ‘love yourself too much’; ‘proud of you’ became ‘I love you’ etc). It wouldn’t take long for the baby to outgrow my Cantonese. I realised that if we wanted to do this, I had to get another Cantonese input in my baby’s life."

      I did not say she doesnt speak perfect cantonese, I said her Cantonese is too poor (i.e inadequate). If its so important to her that she wants to raise a child to be cantonese and prolong her chinesee canto heritage, why knowing your own cantonese is inadequate do you marry a white man and into his family when he/they cant even speak cantonese and produce a eurasian child that is not even ethnic Chinese and will have no reason to even learn it in the first place, most Eurasians dont even perceive themselves as being Chinese. The woman is a moron, she epitomises a lot of shameful Chinese women who think they can have their cake and eat it.

      If your command of your own Chinese language is inadequate and it means so much to you as does prolonging your Chinese heritage, you remedy it by marrying a Chinese speaker.

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  18. "The modern BBC female considers herself on a par with her liberated white counterpart."

    What kind of comment is that?? Aren't people just individuals? What is liberate by the way. Can Chinese women experience liberation? If not, what do they experience. SF.

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    1. liberation from Chinese patriarchy. its a reaction to the Chinese females who like to cry sexism if they cant live like their western peers.

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    2. BBCZeitgeist, it's that Chinese patriarchy again. Well, I can't pretend I had my share of arguments with my parents, especially my father. I told you how my brother was treated compared to me for example.

      Personally, I cringe if I see any BBCs trying to 'fit in' with their white friends. I see an act of rebellion rather than self expression. I knew from a young age I would never be like the white girls. My parents are super strict and follow the strong discipline root. Whilst it's been painful at times, we all know now, it was for our interest.

      The reason I ask can Chinese women experience liberation. I wanted to see what it means in the west. And you answered that. Equality is so central to modern society. But I would not say that is liberation, but fairness. SF.

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  19. BBCZeitgeist, apologies, I didn't open the link to read. I'm still not used to using this site and it's a little too detailed. I'm used to reading a piece and simply replying.

    Sure, she has patchy command of her dialect. I don't begrudge her wanting to involve her children with the language. It can't be a bad thing. My guess is it's only a bad thing because we are to assume she speaks English with her husband. Therefore the child may not be able to learn naturally.

    I know I speak with my brother and sisters in English. We sometimes break into half and half. But I guess this is the fact that our age groups and experiences are very similar. The golden rule is to always speak Chinese with my parents. No ifs or buts. As mentioned in my previous post, Chinese for Chinese is quite closed minded in my opinion. After all, English spoken by non British seems to be accepted. Why not apply that same rule for Mandarin, Hakka and Cantonese for example?

    Finally, would it be better to admit that one cannot speak their parents' dialect at all? Because the emphasis is not about losing the language, but another article about supposed guilt by those who have somehow diluted the bloodline. SF.

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    1. English spoken by non British seems to be accepted. Why not apply that same rule for Mandarin, Hakka and Cantonese for example?

      Good Q, I will answer that Q fully in a new article soon.

      Finally, would it be better to admit that one cannot speak their parents' dialect at all? I dont know what you mean, admit to who?

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  20. BBCZeitgeist, that last comment was not particularly directed to you, but in general, I noticed a large portion of posters who like to make fun of this mother with her lack of command for her dialect. But I detect a huge portion are similar here. I asked earlier, did anyone attend Saturday or Sunday School to learn how to read and write Chinese characters. No one seemed to want know on that comment.

    Could it be fact that a huge number of BBCs today are very similar to this Fiona? But because of her choice in partner and her need to catch up on her roots, she's suddenly mocked for being "born again" Chinese.

    Therefore I ask, would it be better to admit that one cannot speak their parents' dialect at all, rather than snipe at others who are at least trying? Because if not, then on the face of it, we BBCs are good as selling out by failing to try and preserve something. My opinion of course. SF.

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    1. haha @ born again Chinese - Alpha course for Chinese anyone?! "would it be better to admit that one cannot speak their parents' dialect at all, rather than snipe at others who are at least trying?"

      I still dont understand what point you're trying to make. Isn't the case those who 'snipe' are usually the ones who can speak their parents dialect?

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  21. BBCZeitgeist, you say those that usually snipe are usually the ones who can speak their parents' dialect. Not from where I'm sitting. Reading between the lines on this forum alone, there seems to be a fair few posting insults but displaying very little respect or understanding of Chinese culture. In fact, preferring to make fun of others. To be honest quite mean-spirited.

    I think posters should state their level of speaking their dialects. Let alone writing it. That's why I asked anyone whether they attended Saturday/Sunday classes in the past. Instead, it's back to insulting rather than find the true situation of us BBCs.

    I'm left to assume these posters are perfect in their command when all I see around me seems the opposite. It's actually quite rare for BBCs to speak perfectly and also write it. Many often mix English with their dialect or find it difficult to speak their dialects like their parents do. Being a Born Again Chinese (should I trademark that?) is not all that shameful if you take away all this turtle business, the language is for all, and not just for BBCs. SF.

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    1. I disagree, IMO BBCs that do not speak or understand Chinese at any useful level are likely to be white washed and hang out with white people and wont even care about their ethnic identity to even consider 'sniping' in the first place. Its only when they become in your words a 'Born Again Chinese' do they start thinking or doing something about it, but by then, Canto will be too hard for them to learn later in life.

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    2. BBCZeitgeist, if as you say, it's only when they become a "born again Chinese", do they start thinking or doing something about it, then why is it so bad? You post as if you want no solution for those that want to at least try.

      At the very least these so-called white washed mothers are trying to do something. Surely this is better than the first group you mention who are not even likely to be on forums like this, because they are busy merging in with the host nation's culture.

      I agree that Canto may be too hard to learn later in life, but surely it's worth a try for the next generation. Your only gripe is the fact that these women have married outside of their ethnic group, therefore their 'innocent' offsprings should be dis-allowed to learn the language.

      If this is not the case, then why must the children be subjected to a lost chance to learn one half of their heritage? If anything, I believe that part of the daughter's guilt might be a mixture of her parents lack of awareness at the time of when she was growing up. She was the result of weak parenting, so it has caused her to seek this country's culture first.

      It is very common for immigrants to discover their own culture later in life. These mothers are trying, and no doubt, if she had married a Chinese man, they will still be trying, because she has poor command for her dialect, and wants her child to do better. SF.

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    3. Its an presumption. We don't know her exact motives, she could be mixed race baby fetisher or a born again Chinese after she has given birth to a mixed race. And not all mixed race baby fetishers share the same motives - some want to rid themselves of chinese genes, whilst others may want a mixed baby that looks chinese.

      I still think there is a difference between reaching that point in your life where you ask yourself whether you should settle down with someone Chinese or white etc. The turtle mother will probably not think about this because they want white men or want a mixed race baby or they believe the mixed race is the apotheosis. The child itself is not even following Chinese customs with these made up pseduo-western-chinese double barrel names. So, what is the point telling a white looking child that he's Chinese when he's not or giving it a Chinese name or even making it speak canto, especially if he has a white father? If you look at her photo, the child has blondish/light brown hair, it doesn't even look remotely Chinese. The child is not going to perceive itself to be Chinese anyway.

      Now, if you're talking about blame. Of course the parents of BBC are partly to blame. If you read Fiona's article, its clear she has an incompetent mother. If your command of Chinese language (and your partner too) is inadequate, the Chinese speaking grandparents should assume the role of raising the child to speak Canto, but often they live too far away, the Chinese daughter deliberately migrate/live as far away from their Chinese parents to stop them meddling in their lives.

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    4. BBCZeitgeist, regarding the picture you mention, it's just one child, plus all children start off with fair hair and often develop far darker hair once older. It's not all about the outside. I have relatives from my mother's side that are one quarter Black, one quarter Mauritian and half Chinese. They all speak fluent Chinese and hang around Chinese circles. However, on the face of it, you are not immediately drawn to appearance on whether they have some kind of identity issue.

      Perhaps you are writing about parents with identity issues, which then ultimately filters down to the children. I don't think mix raced people get confused unless they had a overly mixed upbringing.

      I have seen your extensive posts about mixing race equals one culture. Here, we're discussing Chinese culture and language. You are correct that Chinese culture is often lost, but at least these mothers are deciding to do something about that for their children.

      You 'choose' to assume all things about these Chinese women other than one Chinese woman simply falling in love with someone who happens to be from outside of our ethnic group. I really haven't seen you type that on your lists of whys. This strong view that near enough all Chinese women who end up in inter-racial relationships are weak, trying to wash away their heritage and most of all, craving for a mixed race child like it's some trophy is valid to a point, but on those women who happen to want extra classes to help their child gain more awareness is a good thing in my opinion.

      It is not greed. I believe it's an in-built annoyance between subtle class differences. Most BBCs come from peasant stock. This is simple working class for folks living in this country. FOB parents often have simplistic goals and only want their children to get a great education and make use of that talent to get the best in life. Beyond that, it starts to go grey and blurred. Imagine what a relationship with a white person means. It's a way out of working class farmer status. Those that are proud of their backgrounds feel the woman has sold out. She must be ashamed and can't wait to get out from her past.

      I find that many so-called true Chinese patriots dispise those that marry white people. It's all to do with being snobs and trying to better yourselves through the Chinese stereotypes about White equals moving upwards on the social ladder. Isn't it just a class thing? Class envy maybe? Let's face it, even previous generations have been brainwashed into thinking white means success. White means respect amongst other Chinese. White association gives you previlages.

      It feels like our Chinese sisters are kicking fellow Chinese down as she's trying to climb up the greasy social pole into whiteness. But how much of that is down to the patriotic type's head? Are those who question the women's motives so much are actually feeling frustrated with the Chinese as a whole, looking up to white people in general, but preferring to go for the easier targets like women marrying out instead of addressing the climate in which BBCs grow up in? Meaning BBCs along with FOBs have all been trained to believe that white is better than yellow when it comes to the crunch. SF.

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    5. I;ve seen mixed babies with dark blackish hair which developed into much lighter hair later.

      If its argued 'mix raced people dont get confused unless they had a overly mixed upbringing,' all the more reason to not give them a mixed upbringing, only a white one! why confuse it by calling a chinese baby and giving it chinese lessons etc?

      Yes, whilst most BBC's probably do come from ancestral rural heritage (though not necessarily peasant since rural society is also class stratified, landowners etc), it remains the case that pretty much all BBCs have never actually experienced a rural Chinese life, they were born and raised in UK, they've never worked in a paddy field in their life nor raised chickens etc, so its not as relevant as you believe, although maybe these workaholic values have been drummed into them by their rural FOB parents, but I dont think it really applies to rural life, rather Chinese takeaway life for BBCs.

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    6. BBCZeitgeist, I was not talking about the BBC generation but our parents. How they have already been indoctinated into this belief that white equals success and white means respect. With views like this, is it any wonder people like Fiona might exist?

      I still can't see how she is seen as some kind of hypocrite though. You could call this over-compensation. To make sure the child never loses its heritage. By appearing to be fully Chinese does not make that person anymore "Chinese" in belief and culture-wise. Surely, that counts as something too.

      The whole blog often questions BBCs on whether they understand or even like their own ethnicity and culture. And when someone comes along and tries to reverse a loss of culture, they're labelled names because they are somehow guilty of their relationships. You forget, we are living in Britain, and whatever you think, it's highly likely some form of inter-racial relationships will happen.

      We cannot be compared with Culture of Hindus and Muslims. Their religions are centural and very often binds into marriages. Chinese culture has nothing like that. Only the older generation would frown upon mixed relationships because they're thinking about their era where whites almost didn't exist. They didn't have to go school with them nor did they make any friends with them, therefore they form an opinion from a closed insular mindset. SF.

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    7. Those same older generation had a pride based on being Chinese. It's the same thing here, but ours , at least in my opinion , is for racial social identity. That we would embrace a Chinese language speaking hapa before we would develop our own English-language speaking ethnic Chinese social identity says a lot.

      BBCz's article is where culture and social identity overlap. In this respect, Fiona Falcone is taking the already whored our Chinese consumer-led cultural identity and piss-taking it to the max. And because British ethnic Chinese do not have a visible or established social identity as such, she can be considered 'progressive' too. Hence 'cake and eat it too.'

      And yes I feel I have the right to say all that as a minimal-Cantonese Sunday-school attending speaking BBC.

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    8. Thanks for being honest Happybritishchinese. Of course you have your right to an opinion. Where the over-lap happens, you could argue, Fiona Falcone's generation is probably slightly older than most that contribute to this blog. The contributors here are disillusioned with the lack of identity for BBCs, whereas she recognises her invisible presence in a British Society, and probably trying to inject a very middle-class ideal of a worldly view/education rather than seeing it more from the view point of being nationalistic and proud.

      Her husband is very likely to embrace this too because the more the child can gain, the better it is for his/her future. By playing the humbled mum that now realises the importance of Chinese language, she is able to say she's ashamed of her lack of command for a dialect as well as pat herself on the back for keeping it alive.

      I guess, in the end, many on this blog question her real motive, and see her as a sell-out because she is trying to make amends for her past by inflicting further confusion on her child.

      My point is, we can all make mistakes, and we are also entitled to another chance. Whatever her real motives, she is at least trying to revive something that is very likely to go if our generation don't speak the language or keep some traditions. SF.

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    9. Yes, but why she gets the publicity or makes the effort and not a regular Cantonese speaking mother of an ethnic Chinese child I've no idea.

      Which goes back to the Chinese mentality of not respecting our own culture, until its been appropriated by whites, or sold back to ourselves.

      You can see that in the amount of pirated HK movies in the early 2000s,to now online streaming seen as normal, to lack of interest to now how everyone says all the HK/Mainland productions are shit and everyone misses HK when it's gone. This is the stupidity of Chinese people. We are too fucking slow to catch on, and only once it's gone, we lament. This is the problem of enjoying the comfortable follower mindset and not having the leader mentality.

      If Cantonese speaking FOBS lament about their children not speaking Cantonese, for example, why the dont they pile some of that cash earnt from their restaurants into Cantonese schools? Because the only people who will attend are white people? Or because they dont consider it a worthwhile venture? Or basically they dont give a shit? Consume vs create. To me, this is the real tragic meaning of the celebrated Cantonese speaking eurasian. In other words, incredibly shameful.

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  22. I would also like an honest opinion of men's views. I feel it is different if a Chinese man marries a white woman. There seems to be no criticism at all. And if it exists, it's miniscule. Does this imbalance exist because men view interracial relationships involving Chinese men quite brave and challenging? If that is the case, are Chinese men saying their women are just 'silly wimmen'.

    I find that very often on this forum BBC males see BBC and FOB women are seen as simpletons, unaware of what they are doing. They are hook-winked or even sleep-walking into these relationships. Whereas BBC men find themselves all-knowing and totally in control? In both these cases, they're from a man's point of view.

    I make this point because of a throw-away comment made by you BBCzeitgeist, regarding FOB wives deciding to move well away from the in-laws, like it's fact. This kind of comment is quite telling, since it was not really needed in the sentence. It's only there to further highlight women in general within the Chinese community.

    Couple that with all the one-sided views about why Chinese women should never be allowed a chance to give their mixed race children a chance of Chinese culture is not only unfair, but it's coming from a view-point of assuming mix relationships mean they should surrender their own past. It's like saying, because you didn't knuckle down to your early Sunday School Chinese classes years back, you are now not allowed to sit a GCSE in Mandarin.

    This punishment style ticking off is the only way to justify the reasons to never allow these 'turtle mothers' freedom to give their children a chance they perhaps overlooked when they're younger. We all make mistakes in life, but should it mean we need to be punished for life. And in the case of the "turtle mothers", the punishment is, she should have chosen her own race. And because she has diluted her blood, she has no right back into the community. SF.

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    1. Ok, name one famous /public figure Chinese male in the UK who is inter racially married? There are none.

      well, lets face, theres no way i would have inclination or the dedication or the sponge like brain to soak up a GCSE cantonese exam now, maybe, when I was younger.

      Well perhaps with the playcantonese, it can be construed as a example of someone giving back or going back to her Chinese community, but in general it doesnt happen that often. I'm certain that most of these women with mixed race kids are not interested in going back in to the Chinese community. The worse examples are the privilege mixed race kids who live in HK who live their lives segregated from the local main ethnic chinese, its as if their parents don't want the local Chinese contaminating their precious hapa project.

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    2. BBCZeitgeist, so there are no men. But it would not normally warrant a tar-brush attitude towards one whole sex. If you read some of your former posts. Can you honestly say they seem balanced and fair? Even the throwaway comment about wives wanting to drag their new family away from the in-laws seems to tar Chinese women as a whole. This all goes back to a section of Chinese women marrying out?

      From your reply to the GCSE comment, I detect an unwillingness to admit that there were some elements of punishment and unforgivable behaviour for women who have chosen to marry outside of our ethnicity. In essence that is what this topic is about. Never allow these women a chance to teach their 'half' children any Chinese, because they don't deserve to it because they've made their bed so must lie in it.

      I think that is harsh, so the reason I made the GCSE comment. SF.

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    3. Thats her problem, if she wanted a Chinese child she should have married a Chinese. Eurasian is a different ethnicity. Giving it a part Chinese name, giving it Chinese lessons and calling it a Chinese child doesn't make it a Chinese child.

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  23. Another one:

    http://britishbornchinesemum.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/blog-post.html

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    1. That's identical, its a common problem now, they brought it on themselves. Theres also FOB mainlander on dimsum forum now with her white husband asking about how she can change her name to a double barrel east-west surname - Jie Tang Smith.

      http://www.dimsum.co.uk/forum/comments/topic-4305.html#14641

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  24. American version of PlayCantonese?

    http://planethanchinese.com/founder.html

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    1. Except her plans are slightly different, shes selling Mandarin to white kids but discarding Cantonese.

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