London's bookish Charing Cross Road may not be illustrious for its football supporters, but a Chinese couple caught my eye, highly fobbish, in their early 20's, both kitted out in matching Steven Gerrard Liverpool Football shirts. The idiosyncratic manner in which these types of Chinese worship English or non-Asian football teams with religiose fervour is a reflection of their failed Chinese consciousness in shunning their own domestic leagues, teams and players in the Far East.
During a recent visit to the Far East, one attended a Hong Kong Division One Football match, attendance was visibly low, lower than Scottish Division 3 League matches (that's saying something), the sports news bulletins show similar low attendance for all matches across Hong Kong, however when an 'English' team tours the Far East, we see quite a different reaction from the local Chinese.
Arsenal and Liverpool have just ended their pre-season training tours playing local teams in Asia.
A simple examination of the crowds in the photographs reveal local Asian's overwhelmingly wearing English shirts energetically spurring on their favourite English clubs to defeat their own Asian teams. Yet, do we ever see White Brits supporting China over England in sporting competitions? Do we ever see White British couples sauntering down Charing Cross Road in matching Yao Ming (before his retirement) shirts? Do we ever see a huge army of White British fans egging on Marco Fu or Ding Junhui to crush Ronnie O'Sullivan? The answer is an unequivocal no.
The Chinese couple spotted in Charing Cross Road may have an excuse - they're in the UK, however Asian's residing in the Far East supporting English football without equivocation are completely illogical, even more so in consideration of the fact they have no White English friends, do not have a firm grasp of the English language, have never visited the UK nor the city of Liverpool, nor are there any Chinese players contracted to play for any of these Premiership teams touring the Far East. So why do Chinese support England and English Football club teams?
Reasons for Asian Chinese fanaticism of English football
One would be hard pressed to explain 'Asian Odds' gambling, football comes first, gambling comes second, rather there's a more simpler superficial explanation...
In 2007, Warwick Business School conducted market research on Chinese football fans on behalf of the English Football Association. Their findings...
"Interest among Chinese fans in international football (78.01%) vs Chinese local football (31.24%)"
"In major tournaments where China was not present, 96.3% of Chinese supported England"
"Chinese fans were drawn to English football because of the players' glamorous lifestyles and their WAGS."
"England team shirt is the most popular football shirt seen in China followed by Manchester United and Brazil"
Daniel York-
ReplyDeleteThis is goes on EVERYWHERE. When I was a kid and my dad used to take me to watch Bristol City there'd be kids sat there watching them in Man Utd and Liverpool shirts.
People everywhere support the biggest and most famous teams, regardless of what races play for them. Go to any rural provincial English town and you'll see a proliferation of Man Utd shirts, the whole of Scotland seems to support either Rangers or Celtic, all over Africa you see see kids in Real Madrid and Liverpool shirts.
I'm as up for Chinese "pride" as anyone but trying to say the popularity of English football is a source of race shame is seriously far fetched. The English Premier League is the most watched football league all over the world and that's all there is to it. And Man City ended up with a LOT of Chinese fans when Sun Jihai played for them.
The quality of local football has to improve a lot first. They are many years behind the standard bearers of S.Korea and Japan in that region. There are three main problems;
ReplyDeletea) Local leagues are full of corruption problems. Results can't be trusted so what's the point in supporting them?
b) Lack of coverage by local media
c) most importantly, gross negligence by the CFA and CCP! There are barely any academies, very poor investment such as importing foreign coaches who don't bother learning the language.
There's no easy fix here but I'd start by extorting investment from visiting clubs. If they're expecting to make a lot of capital from their tours and generate interest leading to revenue, they can afford to give something back - both in terms of money and expertise in coaching both domestic coaches and players.
In general terms talking to people from China, although most of the ones I speak to in all honesty are from wealthy families, they tend to distrust domestic brands as low quality. If you can put out a strong product, you will start to win back a lot of people. At the very least, consistent qualification for the world cup has to be a basic target. Just look at how winning the women's tournament has been a boost for Japan this week.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletejigenzanittou:
ReplyDeleteIn general terms talking to people from China,..they tend to distrust domestic brands as low quality. If you can put out a strong product, you will start to win back a lot of people. At the very least, consistent qualification for the world cup has to be a basic target. Just look at how winning the women's tournament has been a boost for Japan this week. '
That makes sense. I'm sure China knows this, its just theres too much other stuff going on, and with the state controlling everything, it has to manage everything, seeing as 'everything'reflects Chinese culture.
Again...cultural development. Its the same reason Chinese youth now have so much fascination with the west - because of the hundreds of years its had as a country to develop its culture. But I think once China starts being open to innovation, and i think this will happen soon, great things will start to happen.
- bbczeitgeist do you only approve blatant trolling when its thinly disguised with intellectual snobbery?
At least your initial heated east asian theatre fiasco with Daniel York has somehow developed into an open discussion.
Squealer above is ranting like he's giving birth to a crackbaby
I don't know much about football, but I thought you liked a team for how they played, not their race. Not the case for you, I see.
ReplyDeleteMingRev:
ReplyDeleteInteresting, I am a Chinese Malaysia (who grew up in UK) and yes there have been record crowds for EPL teams last week.
What's happening is that the NWO is preping the way to play most of the games overseas.
Foreign owners, fans, player, managers and now VENUES.
But i really don't think this is a reflection on 'white worshiping'.
Believe me in this I am very very close to the ground, I'm talking 1 step removed from actual triad gangbangers.
The Asians who fervently support EPL teams as if they were in Merseyside are Westernised yuppies with little grasp of their language and culture.
We call them "bangsar" ( a westernised part of town) Malaysians.
these people are like 10% of the population and most of them will be into things like EPL.
The 90% rest of us Chinese speaking Chinese are only interested in EPL from a gaming perspective.
In fact I speak from 1st hand experience, there is very very little influence of Western culture on us hard core Chinese.
it just cannot compete, we have so much to see, read, listen and immerse in.
If Brad Pit and Cheng Kah Wing came to the Chines part of Malaysia, Mr. Pitt wouldn't get a look in edgeways.
It's true - on one of the sex forums, one complained how the local girls never even took him seriously, and he gave up.
I lol'ed when I read that.
The same in HK, outside of LKF of course.
As for China I think things are starting to change. Like I say what's there to be fascinated about with a place that is bankrupt and whose sports teams are only English in name.
Have you guys seen the ban on Transformers 3 in PRC ?
and the promotion of a new PRC made movie with lots of HK actors, about the early revolution.
I think that is a good sign, with such a wealth of talent it's bound to be at least OK.
So what if transformers is banned, not as if it is a great piece of work, yet the NWO media is whinning so it must be hurting them.
ming, is there much gambling on local Malaysian football teams? or is it mostly gambling on EPL?
ReplyDeleteJigen, but corruption is allegedly widespread in the English leagues too. Remember Bruce Grobelaar? Panorama investigation a few years ago, Manager Mike Newell said 'backhanders were rife,' Sam Allardyce accepted 'bungs.' etc yet their fans don't desert them in quite the same manner as Chinese fans appear to desert their own Chinese local and international teams.
ReplyDeleteBranding is amusing, Chinese love wearing Burberry and Liverpool + England football jerseys as high culture brands, yet in the UK...which social class of people idolise these two brands the most? - Chavs!
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThere's some but by far and away EPL and UCL are 99% of the market.
I think as far as Bungs and stuff goes, whilst of course it shows the hypocrisy in the game, it's not quite the same as the whole outcomes of games being fixed.
But then again, I see a lot of games where the reffing looks very suspect, so it is revealed that the refs are being bribed and outcomes fixed.
That could be potential bombshell - another reason why I think the EPL will go global soon.
I doubt the denizens of Shanghai will care very much if a few refs have been sacked for taking bribes, whereas in UK that could potentially be fatal.
MingRev
Wrong foriegn investment? what about Guangzhou Evergrande record $7m-a-year signing of Argentinian midfielder Dario Conca? good or bad investment? Will he rejuvenate interest in Chinese football?
ReplyDelete"Besides helping to improve the team's results, I hope I can help improve and raise the image of Chinese football around the world."
(Dario Conca, new Guangzhou Evergrande signing)
Hey BBCZ,
ReplyDeleteno doubt you would have seen Mrs. Murdoch's well timed publicity stunt.
She was described as ' fiercely loyal and ambitious'.
I think the ambitious part is definitely true, but loyal hmmmm.
Doubt if she would have done that if she were married to a taxi driver and not one of the world's richest men.
LOL.
Daniel York writes-
ReplyDeleteZeit, you're really barking up the wrong tree here. People everywhere just support the biggest, most famous teams. It's got nothing to do with "Western Idolatry" (which DOES go on but not with football).
As much as I enjoyed your blog and on agreement with most of what you said I find you take the racial aspect of this subject a bit too far.
ReplyDeleteRe: Rupert murdoch and wendi deng
ReplyDeleteYes I saw it, seeing a Chinese woman that physically aggressive (outside of a chinese restaurant kitchen fight of course) is indeed a rare sight, I'm not sure she would have reacted if her husband was Chinese.
Daniel: yes, but we are talking about the intensity of interest, Chinese are obsessed with EPL far more than other countries.
Re: mingREV, Kevin Cheng is in the wrong profession, just imagine the interest if he was a footballer!
22 July 2011 00:18, what subject are you referring to?
ReplyDeleteMing Rev:
ReplyDeleteHi BBCZ,
yeah I think Ms Deng's stunt was all about self publicity and very little to do with real affections.
Any real Chinese can tell by her pre "fight" motions that reveal a selfish motive.
the bossy way she almost barges other people out of the way to help with the incredibly difficult task of pouring water for him.
These movements I've seen 1000 times from fake ass career women on the make.
And as been said, very much doubt she would have lifted a finger if her hubby was a poor taxi driver, whatever the race !
On a related note, we see that a certain S.Ma lost the Apprentice despite trying to be more English than the English at every turn.
It's quite disturbing to see a girl like her who obviously blames ALL Chinese men for her mom's predicament.
This this happening more and more.
Why can't her kind grow a pair and face up to her offenders instead of castigating 700 million innocent people ?
Cowards .
Anyway I don't think she had it so hard. yah so what if she lived in a Hutong when she was 7, nobody remembers what they did at that age.
Certainly when she got to UK, her life easy.
I mean come on, with so much state subsidies at hand, Discount rate with access to some of the best Unis around, housing benefits, UB40, NHS ?
Hard life I think not, I think it was easy compared to most from that point on.
So what do we do about these fake ass Chinese man-hating cowards ?
Well, I guess its a bit late for KC but maybe he likes a change.
I hear they are killing all their lead actors over in TVB with impossible workloads, and guess what kind of person is in charge ?
Ha ha, you got - its S.Ma in 30 years time - Lok suk's wife Virginia.
Daniel York writes-
ReplyDelete"Daniel: yes, but we are talking about the intensity of interest, Chinese are obsessed with EPL far more than other countries."
They're not though. In Africa it's just the same. In IRELAND for that matter. It's just that there's no strong football culture in China. Indeed the level of interest in the EPL even in Europe and South America is phenomenal when you consider how strong their own football culture is.
You might as well argue that people in Milton Keynes are obsessed with Manchester United. Geographically miles away but the biggest, most famous team in the world.
Its not that illogical for milton keynes to support another team in the UK, theyre British after all. many irish and africans play in the EPL, its logical they have african and irish fanbase. But there are no Malaysian/Chinese players, yet look at the size of the fanbase, that is illogical.
ReplyDeleteIrish supported manchester united for decades because of the George Best legacy, can you say the same about a Fang Dongzhuo legacy? he was the biggest failure in the history of EPL.
Re: Susan Ma. You are just guessing, has she openly said that? I dont think she has, although I would not be surprised if she did in consideration of her mothers history. Theres a lot of unmarried/divorced/single mothers/separated mainland women who deliberately migrated to the west (writers such as Xinran) because they had issues with Chinese men and/or China/CCP.
MingRev:
ReplyDeleteBBCZ,
I have to repeat that the EPL worship concept is ONLY prevalent among 10% of the Westernised Chinese population.
The stadium holds 80,000 so there is more than enough for that sort of thing.
I am 100% sure on this, though I am educated in English I speak both Mandarin and Cantonese and trust me the CSC don't really care about no EPL except from the gaming angle.
Women shi jiang zhong wen de hua ren bushi jia de wai guo ren
Western worship simply DOES NOT exist in our community, although there lots that wished it did.
I'm not sure what your point is in all this, are you protesting this and saying you should fight back or are saying this is all somehow inevitable?
S.Ma:
You said it too .. a lot of them have problems and what did I say ?
Give me 1 good reason why it is right to blame ALL Chinese men for her mom's predicament ?
Sorry It's cowardism.
Especially toward non PRC Chinese, we have no nothing to do with this.
Note: I AM NOT saying it is right, the father was wrong but put blame where it is properly due; in his face and not lash out like a coward.
Trust me, I live in an almost 100 % Chinese environment, I get to be very very familiar with all aspects of our people.
Daniel York-
ReplyDeleteBBCZ, Fang WAS something of a failure but Sun Jihai certainly wasn't. The EPL would be watched and enthused over in Africa and Ireland even if no Irish or African players had EVER played there. It's the oldest league in the world with (along with Italy and Spain) the oldest and most famous teams. In a place where there is no established football culture fans will always gravitate towards this. They will only be MORE enthused when more Chinese players turn up here (which they will in time).
MingRev is talking utter nonsense about Susan Ma. I never understand what this Chinese fundamentalist idea is about someone like her behaving "more English than the English"? What do you expect her to do? Squat around on the floor in a conical hat spitting sunflower seeds everywhere and talking salty aphorisms in Shanghainese? As for the bit about her hatred of all Chinese men you've absolutely planted that one from nowhere as far as I can see.
But, what can I say? You live in a "100% Chinese environment" so you get to generalise about people.
This place is top comedy, I swear!
MingRev:
ReplyDelete@Daniel York,
Why doesn't a muslim Pakistani grovel all over Western culture ?
Why doesn't a Black man do the same?
Why doesn't a Scotsman give up his kilt, hi flag, his parliament, his language.How many times have we heard a Scots personality go " oooohhh aye but I'm Scottish anyway ".
Therefore why cannot a "BBC" be just as vigilant about his race and culture?
Especially so now that China is back, there is absolutely nothing to feel 2nd rate about.
China was world power 3x before and now it is the 4th time.
xiao kan women de wenhua? wo pai !! wei zhenme?? Xianzai, Zhongguo shi yiming de guojia !!!
I stand by what I say on her but for argument's sake let's apply this to a generic Chinese man-hater not Ms Ma.
It's what she didn't and do that gives her away.
Give me 1 good reason why it is right to blame ALL Chinese men for her mom's predicament ?
Sorry It's cowardism.
Especially toward non PRC Chinese, we have no nothing to do with this.
I'm pretty sure they have no good feeling for he father, his fault not the rest of us 6.4999999 Billon Chinese men.
zhende ziside ren
Daniel York writes,
ReplyDeleteMingRev, have you got any direct quotes from Susan Ma that she hates Chinese men?
Ta shenme shihou zhenme shuo?? Wo zhende mei ting jian.
@Daniel York,
ReplyDeleteZhe yijing jieshi ni :
I stand by what I say on her but for argument's sake let's apply this to a generic Chinese man-hater not Ms Ma.
Give me 1 good reason why it is right to blame ALL Chinese men for their mom's predicament ?
Daniel York writes-
ReplyDeleteWell of COURSE it's not alright to blame ALL Chinese men for their mom's predicament.
But who does??? I've never heard Susan Ma say anything like that. You keep banging on about it. Okay, I'll take your word. But give me some quotes!!!
Zhende bu qingchu!
Mingrev:
ReplyDelete@DanielYork
Bushi qingchu de wendi. Ni buyao mingbai.
A lot of them do.
Do you really think they would admit this in front of TV cameras ?
Ni yinggai zhidao ! nuiren xiwang shenme ?? mian mian mian .
Nali kenung shi mian ??
You don't live in a Chinese environment, I do so trust me on this.
It's what she didn't and do that gives her away.
So let me get this straight.
ReplyDeleteSusan Ma didn't actually SAY this but "a lot of them do" and you know this because you live in a Chinese environment".
Wow.
Some Chinese lacks patriotism and are glory hunters :( So many Chinese are so unhelpful and selfish. I'm Chinese myself but British born & bred.
ReplyDeleteOne has to admire Mingrev's telepathy skills!
ReplyDeleteKai i love your pink sweater its so manly. Thank You.
ReplyDeleteMingRev:
ReplyDelete@wow
Give me 1 good reason why some Chinese women blame ALL Chinese men for their own bad predicaments ?
There ISN'T a good reason as far as I can see but you'd have to give me a GENUINE individual example of this beyond "some of them do but they don't say it, I know this because I live in an all Chinese environment".
ReplyDeleteThat's comical, man.
Daniel York wrote this BTW
I can only assume Mingrev's startling insight into the Chinese female psyche is down to his hypersensitivity, and being in touch with his inner girl. Cute!
ReplyDeleteDaniel York writes-
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese New Man.
And wasn't he saying earlier that he lives in a Mega Chinese environment where foreigners can't get a look in with local girls? Now it turns out a lot of them hate all Chinese men.
Mingrev:
ReplyDelete@Daniel York
I'm referring to Ms.Ma.
Where I live this is a misnomer, we don't even use English on a regular basis.
Get over it.
When I was last in UK, I called a SB company and there was this Chinese girl working there and not only did she not speak a word of Chinese but she had this "black" Suff London accent - damned hilarious.
Ugliest thing I ever heard.
You're getting sweeter by the minute, Ming. Any other racist/sexist comments you'd like to add, or is that it for today cutie-pie?
ReplyDeleteHang on, so Ming's insight into the mindset of BBC women is based on a single phone call he made when he was here on holiday? Brain-curdling stuff!
ReplyDeleteMingRev:
ReplyDeleteSince when is S.Ma a BBC ???
born in PRC raised in Aus in UK less than 10.
Might as well call me BBC then at least I got 13 years, not that I want to be.
Daniel York:
ReplyDeleteI still don't get this thing about the Ma girl, Ming.
She's never SAID that she hates all Chinese men but you've "guessed" she does.
???
MingRev:
ReplyDelete@Daniel York:
Why do you care so much ?
Ok since you are so sensitive and somewhat intellectually challenged let me break it down for you.
Fact: Her father is not in her life and most probably left them
Fact: She probably has ill feeling toward him, and so would I if I were her.
Fact: She is unusually driven to succeed and prove herself at an abnormally young age for a Chinese.
[Yes Mr. York, Chinese develop and stay younger for a lot longer the Europeans, thus we tend to do things at a later stage.]
Q: Who is she trying to prove to?
Obviously she desperately wants acceptance as a ' winner ' in European society.
Everyone saw the intense almost abnormal 'passion' she displayed when she lost, like it was the greatest tragedy in the world.
The upshot of all this is the implied assertion that she prefers Euro society to Chinese.
Why should this be so, when China is no longer a 2nd rate place and everyday is becoming more and more a
superpower.
No2 economy in world, largest FX reserves ever, bailing out MG and various EU govts, and now not just a maker of cheap goods but 1st class cars - VOLVO !
Thus it is not unfair to assume that her disdain for daddy is spilling over to all things Chinese - whether consciously or subconsciously.
She needs to realise this and attack the real source of her problems and not the rest of us.
So maybe 'hate' is too extreme a word but the effect is mostly the same.
I'd like to be wrong but sadly my instinct tells me otherwise.
Ni kor hai jikok.Ngorde mo hor tao bei jikok.
Daniel York-
ReplyDeleteI'M intellectually challenged? Ha ha ha!
It's a good job you're not a policeman or lawyer. You'd get in a lot of trouble making assumptions like that!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteChelsea v Kitchee highlights
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbFbt2ng2og
If you want to discuss Susan Ma, the thread is here...
ReplyDeletehttp://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2011/05/susan-ma-apprentice.html
Any more comments posted on this article unrelated to football will be removed.
Just how pathetic are orientals. It's another aspect of being whitewashed - they happily support white brands in fashion, tech, and football teams is just another. Have a bit of a patriotism in your own teams - they may be shit, small and badly funded... but it's hardly going to get better if you're never going to support an already established white team, is it? Or is it a case of jumping on the bandwagon... face facts, you will never be TRUE Arsenal/Man U etc. supporters
ReplyDeleteat poster above^ well said, technology is a very good example, the death of steve jobs CEO of Apple generated over 36million messages of condolence from mainland Chinese people, steve jobs is white American, the company is American. go figure.
ReplyDeleteChinese lack leaders in brands and stars. any brands are copied and developed from the west to suit the mainland market ( weibo ( chinese twitter), taobao (chinese ebay) and any stars are mainly from hong kong advertising lynx deoderant or bottled tea on tv commercials. with the lack of definable individual voice and only mass support from the government, itll be a while until china creates any world-changing individuals like the west's steve jobs or artists or bands.
ReplyDeletein china people are enjoying the wonderful west imported/ influenced consumer-level status too much to think cultural development of any kind. and this lack of cultural development then transitions into the stuff you mentioned above - football, tech, etc . China has a way to go, and as for chinese in the west ( us) i think its safe to say that we come to the west for practical benefits and for those of us born here, pretty much the same. that, and we are too individual and segregated amongst ourselves within our own community to the point that the only thing in the uk that can unite us is a first division english football team.
Patriotism? You lot do realise that South-East Asian teams and the odd East Asian teams (most of E. Asia in fact plays baseball and basketball rather than football) do indulge in such "local and native unpleasantries" as rampant doping and match-fixing, right?
ReplyDeleteThis is the way the Premier League Asia. See live Arsenal shirt. I think I have the Arsenal shirt:http://www.footballtshirtuk.com/Arsenal-Shirt.html. I felt happy.
ReplyDelete