'Curvy Kate,' lingerie retailer of D-K size bras is holding its an annual 'Miss Star-in-a-Bra' model contest - targeting corpulent British women who wear a dress size 14 and have D cup breasts, this is now the UK average. However, British Born Chinese women never miss a trick, being competitive creatures in the beauty stakes, they too want recognition from White British society. The assimilated Chinese female can now be seen contesting mainstream British pageants, mainstream British porn and mainstream British glamour model competitions.
But is the Curvy Kate contest, a bridge too far? Whilst White 'fatshion' can claim to be 'fat and proud,' Chinese females however are ethnic, they must claim to be a proud fat person of colour, ie 'proud fat Chinese.' Hardly flattering is it? In consideration of the Chinese female's shorter, slimmer, flatter chested build, how many British Chinese females would even want to measure up to Curvy Kate's 'average' western standard (which is Obese by Asian standards)?
Step up chunkalicious Narissa Chan, a 22 year old British Born Chinese female representing the East Asian contingent at this years Curvy Kate Miss StarInABra 2012 Model Contest.
Does Narissa Chan have the Chunk Factor?
Narissa Chan is a part-time Ann Summers party organiser, pole dancer and a full-time Sociology student at the University of Bristol. She says:
"I’m excited by the prospect of potentially being the first ever oriental in the final 10 in the history of Curvy Kate! Being ‘Chinglish’ I love having the best of both cultures but throughout my whole life, people have commented on my size, as I don’t look like the ‘stereotypical’ Chinese girl. We’re known for Hello Kitty but not for our curves!"
She even writes a poem for the White audience as a selling point for her exotic oriental flava...
I am different, exotic, and ‘Chinglish’ at its best!
I want to put societal perceptions of models to the test!
I wish to tell all to embrace the beauty of your shape in all its forms,
Don’t be embarrassed, you’re fantastic, it’s the way you were born.
Never in a million, when I entered, did I think I would make it this far,
But now I have I really hope you’ll vote me to be your next Star In A Bra!
Chinese women should celebrate their physique as indifferent to Caucasians rather than trying to shift perceived 'narrow' Asian beauty standards to a more European standard by entering these types of contests designed for porcine Caucasians. If 'Curvy is the first step on Britain's obesity ladder,' do we really want to encourage a British Born Chinese to win a contest equivalent to Miss Fat Britain 2012?
By BBCZeitgeist
By BBCZeitgeist
These mainstream contests are all about selling your body to a white audience. Why would you want to do that? This is the position of the desperate Chinese female, they seek acceptance from white people.
ReplyDeleteYou're not too far off the mark.
ReplyDeleteYindsey wang - why should british mainstream pageants only be for white girls? dont you white guys know we chinese girls can be beautiful too?! Thats why I'm going to enter it to challenge societal perceptions.
Tigerr Benson - why should porn actresses only be white? dont you white guys know we chinese girls can be beautiful too? Thats why I'm entering porn to challenge societal perceptions.
Crystal chan - why should lads mags only feature white models? Dont you white guys know we chinese girls can be beautiful too?! Thats why i'm going to model for it to challenge societal perceptions.
Narrisa Chan -Why should fat contests only feature White women? Dont you white people know we chinese girls can be beautiful and fat too? Thats why I'm going to enter to challenge societal perceptions.
Apart from how much flesh they show, what's the difference between them?
None. Its ironic both porno trash and Cambridge Law student are basically doing the same thing, challenging societal perception of the female body, one at a trash end and one at the high end. The Cambridge law student used to run Asian diaspora educational conference, yet she has only learnt to make the same redundant gendered conclusion about her body that an uneducated pornstar makes.
ReplyDeleteLOL what a put down!!! But its true!!! If you are Oxbridge educated with access to the greatest minds, books and cultural connections, surely you can do better than prance around in front of hamsup lo's parading your lor yau. Not that I am fully complaining, I am a flawed bloke afterall lol :D, but not when you beautiful gurls who mess guys natural instincts by "selling out". I disgress, ahem, the serious point where are equivalent female intellectuals like Sontag, Dibon, Toni Morrison? Who i respect intellectually, btw Narissa Chan is gorgeous i can't help it, innit Edison my son.
ReplyDeleteAlso from a broader perspective, for all the career and material attainments, a sellout Chinese woman will never see beyond the superficial. Then there's been questions as to why us males arent aggressive enough to protect our women.
ReplyDeleteWith this kind of slutty sellout behaviour why would any self-respecting Chinese male want to protect such women?
If British Chinese women would counterbalance this arguments with sound rationale as to why there is this kind of profuse behaviour, we would be open to listening. Assuming most of the anonymous above commentors are male , why aren't the BBC/British Chinese women speaking out against this?
Racist, sexist, misogynist...if British Chinese female readers of this blog arent going to come up with any intelligent rationale argument as to the sellout nature tendencies to white males and for easy money,then it's a bit two faced calling us male pride male extremists with vapid baseless name-calling when these female sellouts are the ones doing all they can to destroy Chinese community.
Obviously one should be able to tell the difference between sexy and just plain slut.
With this amount of white-worshipping sellouts in your own community, an extreme Chinese-pride attitude amongst British Chinese is the only rational counterbalance. No amount of confucian 'middle-ground' attitude can possibly fix this mess.
Instead of rebelling 'patriarchy' these sellouts should think about what they are doing and start taking responsibility. With these kind of women, if you tell them they are doing wrong, they label you as patriarchal, if you dont say anything, they said ' i wasnt told'.
Why are these sellouts so stupid? They think theyre being clever but its the complete opposite.
Its because most Chinese dont even see themselves within a community and continue to exist as isolated islands, they dont see this as a problem. Except when these bitches suddenly appear on national television,representing all Chinese suddenly we get up in arms. Cant have it both ways, people.
i am INCREDIBLY embarrassed!!!!! get me a paper bag for my head so i can go into work with my head held high.
ReplyDeleteashamed.
Only one female commenter has an actual opinion on this? Guess the rest of you must enjoy practicing your liberalist freedoms like Narissa Chan, then...
Deletein comparison with white women, Chinese women are NOT that sexualised, however I do believe British Chinese girls want to be more sexualised to compete with the white woman, but not this submissive love you long time nonsense, they want to be sexualised according to the same rules of white women, but that doesn't happen within the media as they're forever ethnically East Asian/oriental whether they like it or not, so they resort to aspects of orientalism in order to get noticed as this is what is required by the white population/media.
DeleteThe stereotype via media representation doesn't really compare to the reality of the average Chinese woman on the streets of the UK, however the stereotype created of submissiveness, you love me long time etc means Chinese women are an easy target to prey on because there is a perception they won't fight back.
Chinese women will more sexy more beautiful if they have the same attitude of english women have!because so many people like you make them not feel that way that is really shame!chinese lady are sexy!
Deleteshame yourself! on the way use a plastic bag cause you don't need breath anymore!!save some for others!
DeleteYo, again. 'wholesome' does not mean white acceptance. BBCs are already mainstreamed, this is another example of it. Not once in any of your arguments do you mention Chinese pride. Instead you are obsessed with a girls figure and throw all political/cultural pride out the window.
Deleteregardless of how attractive she is, shes whoring it for white media. Until BBCs create their own media, we should not support this.
Its nothing to do with footbinding its about developing our own BBC culture that shows we can have sexy girls without having to slut them out for white men. Apart from putting a wire fence around them and calling them footbinders and obvious solution is for the girls to enact self discipline and speak out for beauty contests that support BBC / CHinese women in the UK so that us BBCs can celebrate it.
The problem with some of you lot is that you soley image focused. Oh look hot girl. sexy is just part of attractiveness, there are other things to it.
If Chinese pride means just a sexy chinese body with no substance of Chinese pride ie whoring yourself out to some white institution for sake of acceptance, then BBCs have already lost.
Game the mainstream industry all you want, but dont forget that once you have gotten what you want, ask yourself...have you developed or done anything for Chinese pride and BBC cultural development in terms of Chinese pride, or have you just advanced yourself into yet another self-absorbed me me me Chinese brat like Narissa Chan here? Think about it.
Shes just another one of these...
ReplyDeletehttp://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2012/03/fight-racism.html
Of course they are going to sell aspects of their Chineseness, they use it as a selling point to appeal to Whites to add value in being different. I don't think these rare low key Miss ChinaTown pageants are going to appeal to these types of fame seeking egotistical girls since they want to seek recognition from the LARGEST audience- the mainstream white Brits to show they're integrated British too. Yinsey deep down wishes she could be Miss UK.
In entering mainstream contests, there is really no need for any more British ethnic specific pageant contests such as Miss Chinatown UK etc, only ones run by FOB media such the Miss China UK contest that so intrinsically discriminates against British Born Chinese.
As a BBC male, I don't care if BBC women sexualise themselves. They're just doing what most women brought up in the west are doing... appealing to the lowest common denominator. And as a minority, to also "be accepted".
ReplyDeleteWhat is damaging for the Chinese community, and our race in general, is the need to explicitly point out SHE IS NOT STEREOTYPICALLY CHINESE... and what is that exactly? Small? Demure, submissive etc etc... notice how she says "PEOPLE have commented on my size..." - presumably because she doesn't fit THEIR stereotypes. Well, that's their problem. And that is the serious issue facing Chinese identity. Blacks are proud to be black. Asians the same. We - make excuses. "We're Chinglish, we're mixed! We're anything but Chinese!" Fuck off.
It's one thing for whites or other races to stereotype the Chinese... but for the Chinese to stereotype themselves - the biggest demographic on Earth - well, that is plain stupid.
I guess that's another stereotype she doesn't live up to.
to further add as a comparison, when British black women enter these competitions, do you hear them going "oh I'm not your typical black!" - one, because that is shifting emphasis onto her race... and two, she doesn't want people to even think and then stereotype what a "typical" black is. Unlike this girl here.
DeleteIf we had a British Chinese media that celebrated British Chinese women, they wouldnt need to slut themselves out for zoo magazine and these curvy kate contests for whitey. They can slut themselves out for us BBC males instead lol.
DeleteSeriously tho, image is a big problem for us BBCS because as far as media identity is concerned, we are invisible, which poses a big problem when it comes to distinguishing what our unique habits are, what our women like, what we like, what our individual tastes are, etc etc. Specifics are missing - for our own benefit, rather than anyone elses.
Re: wanting to escape stereotypes, I blame the above factor, and also British Chinese laziness for not visibly wanting to see ourselves in any form of community media other than remaining in the shadow of FOBS or whiteworshipping. If BBCS had our own media, made by us, for us, none of this would be a problem.
"With this kind of slutty sellout behaviour why would any self-respecting Chinese male want to protect such women?"
ReplyDeleteBecause failure to do so will mean the eradication of a distinct British Chinese community with roots. Imagine having to rely on a constant new influx of Chinese immigrants from elsewhere to have a Chinese identity in Britain. Whilst black and asian British communities can trace their roots for centuries, ours will only last a generation or two.
No, it is the duty of British Chinese men and the few BBC women who give a shit about our race to teach other BBCs not to sellout... it is also the duty of first generation Chinese migrant parents here to keep an eye on their children's cultural, as well as academic development.
Also can we stop with the "fat ass" "typical white-black is a fatty" comments. It makes our valid points lost as others pick on how there are some comments here about fat women and such. Which isn't race exclusive btw. If we are to stop the negative racial stereotyping of our race, then that also includes the positive stereotyping as well - including how we are all "thin" and other races are "fat".
ReplyDeleteIn addition, this is no way to change the mindsets of BBC women sitting on the edge, reading this. Every time they read a post commenting on the non-model looks of a ethnic Chinese woman - do you really think that will persuade them to go "wooo, Chinese pride!"? Especially if those that most strongly support it are misogynists?
We need to spruce up our views on women, they are ALL valuable, yes even the completely whitewashed ones that have been lost into the white community. Each one of those represents a failure where the British ethnic Chinese community has not nurtured a positive, unified image of their people in relation to whites.
BBC male: 'Hey you fat sellout slut stop whoring yourselves to white men!'
ReplyDeleteBBC fenale: "wooo, Chinese pride!"
LOL
Its a catch 22 if you say all women are valuable because on one hand if you condone it, they just do more of the selling out!
TBH Analiza Ching, I just feel sorry for her in a lost soul kind of way, re: Narissa Chan, as you say, a typical young woman wants to be accepted and seen as beautiful. But when she says 'not typical' Basically she's referring to the conservative mindset of Chinese, with white being the liberal default.
Look at it this way:
FOB culture - largely conservative ( small acceptance)
white culture - largely liberal ( mass acceptance)
BBC culture - non existant
As a young woman with a curvy body she wants to express herself to be free and sexual, and conservative FOB culture , as she sees it, will not permit it.
Solution: a 'sexier' BBC youth culture for males and females that isnt white worshipping but has modern aspects we can learn to accept warts and all.
It's possible to be sexy and beautiful without being white-washed. And to take it a step further it should be considered important to promote the BBC image as sexy for us BBCS and no-one else. That is an important distinction to make being that modern BBC culture borders very close to mainstream acceptance and that Chinese women become a target for drunk white males.
If BBC women can cultivate the above mindset, that would be a valuable thing for female FOB visitors to the UK to learn from.
It is race exclusive though, which is why there is the 'BMI with Asian Adjustment' measure, you should not use western measurements as a guide if you're Asian. Asians should celebrate the fact that they're different from whites, thinner with their own beauty standards.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it better for the pork dog accolade to remain firmly held within the globbering butt cheeks of Black and Caucasian women that regularly feature on Gok Wan's 'How To Look Good Naked?'
I think so, Chinese should feel proud that they're not fat enough to appear on that programme which is designed for white and black viewers.
As I said before, you can drop Black Caribbean from the pride list, Black Caribbeans have integrated so much into the mainstream that the rate of inter racial partnership for Black Caribbean men is even higher than Chinese women. The main reason Asians appear to show more pride is because religion holds them together.
Its not about only being conservative, its more of a standard of beauty issue, after all Chinese pageant contests show the same amount of flesh as a western pageant.
But as HBC says, we dont have our own British Chinese media, therefore there is no ethnic exclusive outlet for these girls to express themselves visually. Neehao is probably the nearest with their hot male and female British Chinese of the month, but as expected all the girls featured are thin.
You are going off topic. Nonetheless I will reply, I have no idea what you're implying in your 1st paragraph Apr 14, 2012 07:40 AM. It seems you're subjectively in awe of Blacks as expressing racial pride that can do no wrong (I think you're implying if they breed with 2 races they're expressing racial pride? - which is nonsense, you wouldn't say if a Chinese man did that, according to you he'd be expressing racial pride too, more so than if he only breed with his own race? In addition their children are not ethnically black but mixed race, mixed white and black Caribbean have their own separate ethnic category).
ReplyDeleteI'll give you the statistics. I believe you're referring to the 2008 39% figure which is for partnerships not just marriage, the figure for all Chinese women in the UK (not just BBC's), that figure has to be compared to the figure for Black Caribbean women 34%. There's not that much difference is there? Bearing in mind the numbers of Black Caribbean women is almost double that of Chinese women too.
And the figure for Black Caribbean men stands at 48%, which is much higher than Chinese women. As I keep saying drop Black caribbean pride from your arguments, they're too integrated into British society, some of them have been raised by white mothers too, rather like Eurasians, are you telling me Eurasians show more pride in being Chinese than us? Get real.
"You see it with old white men and young, Chinese women of childbearing age - they usually already have white children with a previous partner."
I only know one person who falls under that category in the UK, I don't believe such a phenomenon is common at all in the UK, maybe in china its more common. You are getting rather ridiculous with your assumptions.
Btw, instead of asking me to post articles on subjects you want to discuss, why don't you post your own articles on this blog instead? You need to create a google account first. Instructions are here:
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/p/general-rules-for-posting-comments.html
@BBCz LOL @'globbering butt cheeks'
ReplyDeleteThe slut angle is that she is appeasing to whites, and she has a tattoo and sells herself to appease mainstream media. That she is a big girl representing Chinese females who, are normally thinner is probably the real issue here.
However re : beauty vs sexuality. Not sure if you can compare curvy kate in a bra to miss China pageant contest,one is 'slutty', the other 'beauty'.
Its like saying, which do you prefer thin girls or chunky girls. That a person prefers thin girls over chunky girls is neither good nor bad, it just is. As suggested in the 'BBC girls ugly article', the bigmac diet makes BBC women bigger.
But id rather have a visible BBC culture that included fat people and thin and medium sized ethnic Chinese in the UK rather than an invisible culture that doesnt exist. Otherwise reaching for the impossible ie UK version of model-level TVB, its just unrealistic.
Sexiness as some people know isnt just looks, its also intelligence,confidence, humour and all the other stuff as any non-superficial person will tell you. Thats why its not always easy to capture in just a photo, although that Neehao are featuring babe of the month is better than no representation at all.
BTW cant seem to discuss BBC women without the topic turning into IR statistics debate again.. carry on as eddy would say ' its a prawn cracker' lol
i am horrified with the sexism and racism as well as the ultimate male chauvanism of these comments
ReplyDelete1- when did chinese men OWN chinese women? aren't chinese women owners of their own bodies? i feel as if a lot of people on these blogs thing that women aren't allowed to make their own choices regarding their bodies and have turned back the clock of the suffrage movement. sounds like the republican party in the states and their policies on reproductive rights. furthermore, you criticise women for not choosing BBC men... but if you guys are representing BBC men and call BBC girls sluts... who of those girls want to be with people like you?
for the BBC girls who end up in happy marriages with other ethnic groups and for the BBC males who end up in happy marriages with other ethnic groups - have you ever thought for a moment that sometimes it's for love? I think BBC ppl have enough problems with british white imperialists telling their kids to keep their race pure. i heard of one dutch british girl's parents forcing her to break up with her bf because he is chinese. how sad is that? aren't you doing the same thing to your community?
2- all women are beautiful. that includes "fat" and "thin" BBCs
3- the BBC population is spread out so far, how can you have pageants and media competitions geared towards them? at the end of the day, isn't it good that some BBCs are getting on the radar of mainstream british society. afterall we have to fight david cameron's view that multiculturalism has failed. if we keep isolating ourselves, aren't we going to be a scapegoat for when china rises, similarly to how Muslims have become victims of British fascism and stereotyping?
4- i thought the BBCZ was opposed to racial stereotyping that british chinese dont just end up in the SAME fields as they always did. thank goodness we're seeing a bit of diversity of how BBCs interact with society. it's like you're never happy with what BBCs do. sounds like you guys are self-hating BBCs.
5- at least these women are brave enough to stick to their choices and show their faces. BBCZ has been anon and hides from society under the guise of anonymous names when he has caused a real reduction in the integrity of the BBC population. be responsible for your words and hate. you have the power to make BBCs more positively received and to be a force for unity. what you do instead is alienate others. you have to think what is practically viable. if all you ever do is hate on BBCs - BBCs will be scared to come out with their stories and achievements, because your backlash just sends everyone back 100 years. you think everything (even coincidences or random situations) has one simple explanation: racism. but in effect you have become v closely related to the definition of racist yourself. you hate mainlanders and you hate BBCs. You hate British whites. WHAT exactly are you?
Are you with BBCs or against us? Do you just wanna start off your own colony of BBCs offshore which barely even take up 2% of the population? I think this situation can be explained by your ultimate problem: you probably suffered a lot when you were younger. i feel sorry for you. instead of supporting the people you hope to represent, you hate on our women, and our men. in the end, everyone wants the same thing: they want to live a good life. If a BBC can get access to the same happiness as a white person in Britain, and the same opportunities, regardless of their race, AND they can keep their unique culture, isn't that the best thing?
as i said before, BBCZ, i think you have the power to make change. but i think the way you're doing it is too hateful. why do you do this?
DeleteIf it's okay,I'll butt in here and address the part that I brought up:
Delete'when did chinese men OWN chinese women?'
My answer:
I once mentioned perusing the British Chinese Online forum where BBC males in that conversation never refuted the fact that BBC women mostly found white males attractive, and on a dating debate, it was non-Chinese partners. There are also countless articles on this blog and despite other ethnicities Black, South Asian etc can freely say 'our women', in your case, you have an issue with 'ownership'.
That you dont criticize the western media for constantly hypersexualising Chinese women for the white male,
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/jing-lusi-holby-city.html
With the profuse amount of interacial dating between white males and Chinese women in the UK compared to the opposite or even BBC couples, which is what any real ethnic culture should be based on...the sad truth is it's exactly because Chinese men DON'T have the same amount of possessiveness over Chinese women in the UK, that our ethnic Chinese BBC culture has become a laughing stock and can never be taken seriously.
You just sound like yet another selfish 'have your cake and eat it too' BBC female like this lady:
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/playcantonese_23.html
Funny how this whole last week has had 4 articles about British Chinese women opting to play up their sexualisation to the white media and you decide not to comment on any of them, or that BBC males are invisible from the media. As with most selfish BBCs ( arguably largely female) it's always me first, f-ck the culture and then call those who actually care about a serious ethnic Chinese culture as 'self-haters'. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
Anyway over to the zeitgeist....
you're stereotyping ppl within the community? and you assume just because of what i wrote i must definitely be female? furthermore, what makes me feel uncomfortable is that Chinese men have to be possessive over Chinese women. Surely what is important is that Chinese men reach OUT to the Chinese female community instead of alienate them?
DeleteOF COURSE I am terribly upset that BBC males are not within the media. Of course I am very upset with the state of lack of unity within the BBC community. But maybe instead of attacking other people, why don't we ourselves make a contribution? Why don't you run for office? Why don't you go out on the streets and start rallying up support? Why don't you try and negotiate with the WESTERN MEDIA itself, the ROOT of the problem.
I have a HUGE problem with Quentin Tarantino for example for his objectifciation of East Asian women. I am profoundly upset with the lack of representation within the media. But for those BBCs who filter into the eyes of the West, that at least creates a path for others to enter in slowly too.
I've read the blogs about chinese marrying whites and then like going to elite unis and this and that, and i was like sure, that shouldnt be the marker of success. but have you ever thought about the channels we can use in the first place INFILITRATE Brit society at large TO GET ATTENTION AS A VIABLE FORCE AND COMMUNITY?
In terms of men, we see Jeremy Lin entering into the global sphere for basketball. I was so upset when I read the comments against his race. It shouldn't have anythign to do with whether he chooses or not to pursue the sport. I was terribly upset when i read that people were saying that he was only celebrated because of his skin colour. ain't the case. HERE we have peoplewho are making a difference in places where they dont usually have establishment (ie chinese often choose academic, conforming roles). More chinese faces i see, the more i think i'll spice things up a bit. for one thing i would love to go into journalism or human rights, which would be amazing to see more ethnic diversity in these roles such as Amnesty and so on. Obviously tho, a huge part of the Chinese culture is geared to career stability, but you know what a few local role models have made me think more about pursuing that line of work. What you guys effectively doing are scapegoating people. You know maybe I have been reading your posts and thinking what to do about maybe changing your perceptions. maybe i have been thinking about making a better place for BBCs. but when you guys are criticising at every angle what BBCs DO and instead shd focus on breaking down prejudices within Britain itself. Maybe your audience would be widened and you would make a big impact if you were to understand the NEEDS and desires of each British Chinese individual, whether they are male or female. For one thing, I am certain that the world I want people like you to create is the opportunity for my daughter to choose to love whoeever she wants and choose any career she wishes, NOT pressed against racial stereotypes or racial institutionalised prejudice.
What we need right now is UNITY. not division. Maybe we should support BBCs in their decisions, and Attack western media for not making more space in other areas.
Lastly, Chinese Britons can be a huge moving force for the future. More and more they are becoming prominent in politics and so on.
DeleteWhy can't we embrace our identity as British Chinese in the sphere, unalienated by gendered construct and ESTABLISH ourselves as a great part of the community? Why do we attack our women when we also need to pursue objectives that can benefit our men? We want every British Chinese to have the same opportunities. We want our community to be respected. Before we can BE RESPECTED, we have to RESPECT each other and choices EACH people make. But in DOING So we need to ask British Chinese to BREAK DOWN THEIR own stereotypes about each other.
What you guys need to do is say to Chinese women: stop steretyping against your men. What you also need to say is: love who you love: regardless of colour. You also need to say to them is: your body is your own. but remember you are also represneting others. your responsibility exceeds just that.
What you need to say to Chinese men AND women:
GO and BE the change you want to see. If your heart is IN the traditional career roles, that's ok. but if you wanna be something else.. do it. be brave. we support you.
Apologies for assuming you were a women, that is if are you are a male....re infiltrating the channels, in a nutshell , I think its a carrot on a stick situation that wont change for a while.
DeleteThat Hollywood, the biggest western media institution, is going now to China is only for its money. It's obviously a racist agenda so why work your way up to the top only to hit a glass ceiling?
For every one step forward theres 3 steps backwards, it's like a weird dance. And I think it's done on purpose.
Complaining to them, is pointless because when noone knows who our UK Chinese leader is and whether he even gives a shit, or if he has any power, not much will change. I can only speak for myself , but BBCS in my humble as I stated above should just create our own media BY US FOR US.
I dont know if you are aware, but both youtube and mainstream is aimed at non-Chinese hence popularity to continually fund it, the material will obviously have to please white people or at very least be non-offensive to them to be financially successful.
It's paramount that BBCS make up the audience for OUR own stories REGARDLESS IF IT MAKES MONEY OR NOT otherwise the whole exercise is completely pointless.
That this blog criticizes the angles, is just IMO a good grounding for aspirants like yourself to go ahead and do a decent job and make something middleground to begin with as you say.
But as far as this blog being a force of positive change, id say its a catalyst rather than an instigator because as far as I can see, we are two just BBCs with our own problems , opinions and responsibilities and day jobs that dont necessarily crossover into the realm of entertainment.
But im all for positive action, and good luck with it. And if you need a practical primer in finding funding for your creativity,may I suggest trying www.kickstarter.com, but again, you will need a following i.e friends and relatives to help you reach that deadline.
thanks man. i wish you the best of luck. i hope you find peace with your identity and in british society. most of all, i agree that money shouldnt be the driving force but i think that BBCs have a unique ability to be part of THREE worlds. British society, British Chinese and Chinese society. And I think they should do just that. Let us make and foster friendships with all peoples. Let us share cultures and make bonds with everyone around us.
DeleteI will definitely check out the website, thank you for your support. Maybe if you just encouraged other BBCs the way you have towards me, these BBC women would bring the men along with them in their rise to fame, or BBC men will think about fighting the system and jumping straight for the roles and making a MARKET for themselves. in the end we have to think like strategists, and we also need to exploit the western media when WE can. it's a game. we wont move anywhere if we dont play it.
dont say that you're just a person with your own problems and opinions and repsonsibilities. its clear your blog divides and unifies. at least people are THINKING about what being BBC is. that is a start. Maybe one day you should consider trying to engage more people and develop a platform for people who may be able to provide a middle ground. i think the extremes that the blog advocate are too alienating, and in teh end i know deep down inside all the bloggers contributing just want a better world for all people, regardless of who they are. a world where everyone is respected and appreciated for their uniqueness, chinese or not chinese. what is important is we all band together against our imperialist aggressors and those western media tools that are headed by evil corporations. we have to unify and mobilise against common enemies, not against ourselves. and in teh end we are common humans, fighting against people who try and make us a laughing stock or try and make sure our voices are drowned out in mass media, catering to the rich.
it's about time we started making ourselves mainstream, stirring the pot up a bit and let those brits know we're here.
You make a lot of generalisations and presumptions are aren't true in the first place. For a start, making ourselves mainstream? You do realise on paper (but not in terms of media representation), BBC's are well integrated into British society, fewer and fewer BBC's work in takeaways instead choosing to hold jobs in the white community, they have white social circles, majority of BBC females are in inter racial partnerships, and you want to encourage even more mainstream integration?
DeleteAlienating? If they feel alienated by the opinions expressed on this blog, then it shows how western worshipping their mindset is.
"these BBC women would bring the men along with them in their rise to fame, or BBC men will think about fighting the system and jumping straight for the roles and making a MARKET for themselves."
What makes you think that? Asians in America are more radical, visible and vocal than us in the media, do you see their mainstream Asian women bringing their fame along for the men? No, pretty much all the high profile Chinese females in the mainstream in the US have inter racial partners.
Agreed that realistically BBCs don't need to become more mainstream in either media ( which is why I said we need our own media) or in society, which as BBCz states above we are already integrated enough.
DeleteTheres no need for a middle ground platform IMO when middleground tends to defaults to white.
Simply if BBCs cannot rely on each other in this day and age with the technology we have at our disposal to create our own media culture, without help from a non-ethnic Chinese, it's worthless.
And unless you can retain a solid pro-Chinese goal as the goal of a new BBC media,despite encouraging voices from all around the community, without that backbone of being exclusively by BBCS for BBCS to discover and relate their own path of Chinese identity, and adding to their Chinese pride, it will only become just another a failed experiment.
You cannot become mainstream without endorsing the will of imperialists. BBCs are marginalised already, we should just take advantage of that and create our own media BBC role models , stories, etc, without caring to be accepted or seen by anyone other than other BBCs.
@Anon, it is precisely because British Chinese men and his family are not possessive enough over Chinese women that has allowed the British Chinese female to have a White inter racial partner. It is this break down in matriarchy and patriarchical dai nam yan attitudes and the extended family unit that has led to liberal lassiez faire parenting skills and apathy from other British Chinese who have failed to applied adequate collective societal pressure.
DeleteIf the family unit fails to apply pressure, its upto society to apply pressure, however too many British Chinese live in isolation, so there isn't a collective Chinese society to apply the relevant pressure nor instill values, instead they are subject to the cultural values of white British society which is governed by the principle of individual freedom.
Ridiculouse those who wrote against her!She just takes part in the modle contest!What is wrong with that!what is wrong with seek acceptance if she lives here with "white people"! some shallow men, jealouse perhaps!supoort chinese lady!show off who you are!!
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ReplyDelete@ AnonymousApr 16, 2012 04:12 AM
ReplyDelete1- Some feminists have argued since the womens liberation movement, that ironically the female body is now more objectified and scrutinised than ever before in the history of mankind. They brought it on themselves. Men are not responsible for it. Body criticism is universal. Amy Chua mentions in Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother that Chinese mothers frequently say to their daughters..."hey fattie, go lose some weight." If anything, body criticism is normal part of Chinese culture.
Well of course the majority of partnerships are the result of love, but I fail to see what that has that got to do with anything discussed since we have never disputed the absence of love.
"I heard of one dutch british girl's parents forcing her to break up with her bf because he is chinese. how sad is that? aren't you doing the same thing to your community?"
If you are asking if on principle do I believe Chinese should marry Chinese. The answer is of course yes. Why on earth would any BBC bother following Chinese customs, traditions, language or seek out other BBC or define your identity as a BBC or read a BBC blog or join a BBC internet webgroup...if they don't believe in the BBC identity? Why don't they just go be a White person and only call themselves British? Now whether BBC in practice are all suited is another topic.
2- all women are beautiful but have varying degrees of beauty. If they are all as beautiful as each other and shouldn't be objectified, then shouldn't you consider protesting against pageanting and model contests?
3- Ethnic pageants and ethnic media should be national. Muslims should not feel responsible nor change the way they live just to appease the British people who are too intolerant and ignorant towards them.
4- Racial stereotyping can be negative and positive. I do not live my life according to..."oh I must break Chinese stereotypes to break what white people think of us and prove to white people were not all stereotypes, that way I'll be accepted more positively by whites." I was raised by parents that ran a Chinese restaurant, thats a classic British Chinese stereotype, so what, am I supposed to feel ashamed or inferior because I haven't broken free of stereotyping?
What in your opinion is a self-hating BBC? One that does not support other BBCs? Am I required to support all BBC's just because they're BBC's regardless of what they stand for?
That's the problem with people who visit this blog with the intention of having quick fixes. Once they get what they want, they vanish, without taking the time to learn and discuss the issues here.
DeleteIt's the 'quick fix' mentality. whilst it's a good thing not to dwell on things beyond our control, at the same time to not have a strong enough Chinese-pride mentality within our own BBC consciousness just creates weak culture with the need to be accepted as the real goal. BBCs are diluted enough as it is. The last thing we need is a mainstream image of being to be accepted as whitewashed sellouts just for the sake of being integrated.
Because if its the case of 'boo hoo all we want is to be loved by the brits' and show them what we are made of by dissolving our identity even more, even before we have established our own standard of Chinese pride measured by practically showing concern ie racist incidents against other Chinese,FOBS, BBCs, preserving our culture and creating new Chinese art, and appealing to those who are supposednly responsible to organise a support network for the above, we may as well remain invisible.
For me, mainstream acceptance means BBCs expressing our pride to be Chinese, and not showing that we are just whitewashed wannabes. In that respect more emphasis needs to be placed on how Chinese consciousness fits in for ourselves as individuals first, and building a more caring framework for all other Chinese in the UK, whether it means commenting on a blog, helping someone cross the road, or striking up conversation with strangers, and most important of all developing a political cultural mindset of Chinese pride as we go about our place as british citizens, regardless of our geographical dispersal.
Not everyone is on the forum ALL the time. I think you’d prefer if BBCs were offline and doing something meaningful after reading how prejudiced people are within and outside the community?
DeleteI agree with: "For me, mainstream acceptance means BBCs expressing our pride to be Chinese, and not showing that we are just whitewashed wannabes. In that respect more emphasis needs to be placed on how Chinese consciousness fits in for ourselves as individuals first, and building a more caring framework for all other Chinese in the UK, whether it means commenting on a blog, helping someone cross the road, or striking up conversation with strangers, and most important of all developing a political cultural mindset of Chinese pride as we go about our place as british citizens, regardless of our geographical dispersal."
Maybe these girls, actors/actresses, writers from different Chinese publications, etc are doing this. You take things on the surface and then you label people as sell outs, unrepresentative, and so on. Lots of Chinese on Mainland would probably say you guys don’t know anything about Chinese culture. What about one of China’s femme fatales, Yang Guifei 楊玉環. She was fat cos she was from Tang DYNASTY, GOLDEN AGE OF CHINA. Why isn’t that our current beauty standard? Not all Chinese girls are slim. Pretty much became fashionable when we started reading Western magazines with Kate Moss prancing around. Communist women were big and wholesome too. Funny.
孔子said One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. I haven’t seen any of these girls do anything to harm others. Maybe we should be tackling the receiving end of the prejudice issue, rather than “where it comes from”. I wish I could see the Chinese culture you adopted from 孔子’s wise words in this respect.
DeleteBut I don't see how you go about defaming people. How do you know these people aren't very much in touch with their Chinese roots? Maybe Narrissa can speak Mandarin/Cantonese? Maybe she helps out in her community. You just ASSUME that because she's entering this competition that she's XYZ. You don't know these girls personally and yet you're making concrete judgments on how they live their lives. What if they've gone through their own struggles and defended their culture admirably? Myabe there is no BBC Bra whatever competition geared to the BBC. isnt she just doing what any other girl wants to try out? Sounds like gossip magazine, except I’m sure that gossip magazines would be sued for calling someone a slut lol.
Who are you people? What are your names and where are you from? Why are you guys keeping hidden behind the bush when you criticise others?
DeleteRevival of Chinese pride/culture. Where do we take this from? Can’t we then empower Chinese women the same way they were in唐朝? That was the height of Chinese culture arguably, wasn’t it? What, you going to bring back foot binding too? Return of taking of concubines?
Who the heck is going to want to join this?
THE REAL QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK is What is being a Chinese person in the modern western world?
Han racial identity really started becoming powerful with Sun Yat Sen. He got support from the west!? Also aren’t we a diverse mix. Us Chinese ppl?? Where do the ethnic minorities there fit in? There are even genetic diff between north and south. Anyone can be Sinocised, I thought that was the idea. Anyone can be Chinese according to history and history of Chinese thought. 天命 given even given to foreigners.
Not just that all these divides between HK v FOBS v BBC is terrible. We were all FOBS some generations ago. Why can't all Chinese unite and support each other around the world? maybe we SHOULD see what we can learn from our American counterparts. i feel as if you guys don't let any learning process from other communities. yet you haven't provided any concrete sol'ns. what you are offering it seems v few people would want to be a part of. the culture u guys are advocating seems very grim. we have ONE life people. Why cant every BBC live that life happily, free from racism and free from being hurt by their own people? maybe as these girls face racism in the modelling industry they will stand up for chinese people. maybe they will learn where prejudices lie. maybe a lot of actresses/actors will start making other chinese people thinking about what sort of BBC material is missing from the media. maybe these politicians and yellow earth theatre individuals will carve a niche and create an art form for our community, which also can be enjoyed by others. Hey, I hardly met ANY BBCs in my life. If there are some ppl out there making their name, I can be like, oh hey, there’s a BBC, I can connect with them or establish contact. If we’re less hidden in public, we become less hidden to each other too. Then one day we can finally have enough ppl who know of another who know of another than can make a BBC-focused media?
let's see some transparency guys. u arent going to be accountable for it. a lot of these people go out to the streets with their public faces on after reading what u wrote. but u guys have it pretty good, leading double lives without need for public shame. but what about those ppl who are those u call these things? come on guys. lessen the hate.
Delete@ all of you who seem to comment in droves. Write an article. Here are the steps:
Delete1. sign up for a google ID
2. submit your article to bbczeitgeist@hotmail.co.uk
If you can write concise and strong cases for what you are saying, then it should get published.
And speaking of BBCS getting on with FOBS, take a look at these articles , be interesting to know what your thoughts are on issues that dont involve BBC women hawking their breasts out for the british public -
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/police-car-kills-chinese-student.html
http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/simon-san-murder.html
Look forward to reading your opinions on there.
like the blogs...Agreed "all women are beautiful but have varying degrees of beauty. If they are all as beautiful as each other and shouldn't be objectified"
ReplyDelete...if a woooman aspires to be a "model" then of course there are certain "conventions" u have to conform (or break), you can't work at Abbercombie if you a have a double chin, and beer gut like moi, still i got a couple of their overpriced shirts.
Men are largely and instinctly shallow and just lurve (.)(.)s, why do u think the bikini tops and sexy lingerie that women wear do entice blokes or don't want ppl to see them?!? unless you are not that way inclined and transgender which is OK as well, (i heard unproven rumours of a certain theatre gp and a certain blog moderator) I have my serious moments but not today, I think Narissa Chan's a looker, she may have eaten one or two prawn crackers too many, no probs, eddy lurves his rugs lol
In terms of female sexuality, knowing the controversial area that Chinese women already occupy in western media,break conventions all you want, but do it within a boundary that BBC males get to celebrate it first so that she is rewarded by her community first so she remembers who supported her first, but if she really must sell herself out to the white media to 'break conventions' because of lack of BBC support, make sure she has a Chinese boyfriend first and doesnt become yet another rolemodel for hapa inbreeding for a younger generation.
Deletewhy is their audience male?
Deletecan't chinese women be beautiful for the sake of their discussion with OTHER women/ its nto always geared to men...
you are obsessed.
DeleteThe real issue here is that British Chinese should provide a support network for all women, IMO, that would render selling herself to be accepted by white mainstream as less desirable. Because as it is, she will win, BBC girls will look up to her, she will probably get a white boyfriend, and the cycle will continue. BBCS need our own network and self acceptance of new beauty/sexiness first before slutting ourselves for the mainstream and adding to the trail of racial dilution.
ReplyDeleteIts not racial discrimination, when BBCs dont give a shit about creating our own media and learning to understand our own mentality, make up, beauty etc, and instead BBC women have to slut themselves for mainstream white top gear fanatics and become an icon for more mixed race children, YOU are the ones discrimnating against your own Chinese ethnicity by supporting this.
ReplyDeleteOh come on guys and closet transgenders, at the end of the day it's all about the 8====D
ReplyDeleteif so, those are some pretty small balls
DeleteSupport Chinese Lady!!
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