Thursday, 14 June 2012

How Far Will British Chinese Go To Gain Mainstream Acceptance?


British Chinese Aristocracy

In another article earlier this year, that criticised the meaning of a high achieving British Chinese,  this blog received  flack for criticising those high achievers, as if the definition of a high achieving British Born Chinese is someone who can gain as much mainstream acceptance as possible in their career.

However where does 'mainstream acceptance' end and begin for British Chinese community?

In the above photo, Mr Woon Wing Yip, was made Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) for services to the East Asian food industry.

As quoted here from Dimsum in an interview with Sir Gus O'Donnell, the Cabinet Secretary and head of the Home Civil Service at the time

 "The honours system is an important way of recognising the outstanding contributions made by dedicated people from across the country, who have gone the extra mile to make a real difference to lives of people around them."

To be fair to Sir Wing Yip, in an interview here , as he humbly says he wasnt really aware of why he was given the O.B.E... but would it have been too much to reject it? Or was it accepted for the purpose of 'business relations'? 


Either way, being that Sir Wing Yip is probably our most famous and successful British Chinese, has this accolade set the standard for other British Chinese to follow suit?



British Chinese Theatre

In The Guardian earlier this year, whilst many BBC's at the time were in agreement with British Born Chinese theatrical actress   Elizabeth Chan's complaints about Anti-Chinese racism in the UK, what most readers seemed to have missed, was the context of the argument-  blaming racism for the lack of roles for ethnic Chinese in U.K. theatre.

This indeed maybe an issue for British Chinese actors, but on a wider level, is theatre really a suitable offering for British Chinese who don't even really have a culture of our own, in the first place?



Lucy Sheen Hungry Ghosts




Benedict Wong Hungry Ghosts





http://www.whatsonstage.com/reviews/theatre/london/E8831289908519/Hungry+Ghosts.html



Lourdes Faberes Andres Williams Hungry Ghosts Liv Tyler

In this radio interview  with the  Director, Tim Luscombe, whose play which tackles 'Formula One racing and Chinese political oppression' is about a British racing driver who wants to take part in last race in Shanghai. He meets a Chinese journalist who introduces him to his sister, and whose other sister is waiting for execution for treason- who stole some papers from a Chinese government official and gets shot in the back of the head.

From Mr Luscombe's CV we can see a quote from a Guardian review
'he is one of few British Dramatists to confront the fact that China for all its embrace of a market economy, remains an oppressive militaristic dictatorship'

The play is set in China just at the end of the Cultural Revolution.

Here this British playwrite director, whose main interest it seems is to inform his white middle-class audience about the need for China to improve it's human rights, clearly has had his play authorised thanks to an arguably sinophobic UK media.

However, that being understandable for white mainstream audiences, why would any British Chinese want to take part in this? Is this another example of ethnic UK Chinese having no culture of our own therefore participating in small plays like this that arguably mock China is okay as long as out of work British Chinese actors get 'acceptance'?

British Chinese Actor Hopefuls

In the trendy makeover that British Elitist culture is undergoing, it is now reaching out to ethnic minorities, and, British Chinese are now invited.

Yes 'Unheard Voices - whats your story' is the most recent chance for  British Born Chinese playwrites get to sharing their experiences with British Theatre





Innocent lambs ready to be slaughtered on the theatrical stage of British Elitism

We already know of China's efforts to be on 'equal footing with British elitists', we are also aware of being excluded from mainstream musicals such as JUMP , and yet when it comes to TAKEAWAY the musical, the British Chinese community doesnt put up much of a fight when it comes to how we are seen in British arts, indeed we will jump any opportunity to be accepted, caring little of the final result, as long as individuals, we feel that our ethnic Chinese face has been accepted by mainstream UK media.

 If British Chinese so desperately want mainstream acceptance in Britain, shouldn't we at least demand more options other than being validated by white elitist culture in order to be accepted as members of British society?

37 comments:

  1. Ive never understood why Chinese accept such accolades. I suppose it counts towards business prestige. But then does that mean that one would not be able to run such a big chain of Chinese supermarkets without the accolade?

    Also that still doesnt explain those kids in the above photo eager to act their thespian socks off. Unless its a staged photo.

    As for those 2 BBC actors, like most things that are cultural that represent British Chinese community, playing the establishment's game is all that matters, as long as it grants you more mainstream acceptance.

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  2. To answer the main question, the most significant difference I see compared to other races regarding acceptance as British is that others have defined and set their own terms. e.g. blacks - no-one but the obvious extremists can deny that hiphop, rap and other music and forms of art are intrinsically British but also distinctly black (try having a white or Chinese person do it - awkward!). Asians meanwhile, are steadfast in their "we are Muslim/Hindu/Sikh... and we will not budge from that... but we are also British" approach. Whites accept that.

    But whites refuse to accept Chinese being Chinese AND British. One has to give, so we have those who - like asians are resolute but are shunned by the wider, white British society - whilst the only ones who are accepted are of course the whitewashed Chinese you see who desperately try to remove all traces of their "Chineseness" - whatever the fuck that is - to accomodate white folk's perceptions of us. Far from dictating our own terms as being British Chinese, we are letting whites do it for us.

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    1. 'Far from dictating our own terms as being British Chinese, we are letting whites do it for us.'

      Exactly.

      Look at the example of ethnic theatre 'hungry ghosts'. So this is supposed to be ethnic theatre for ethnic people right? So why dont BBCs watch it? We cant want to be accepted by mainstream yet at the same time not want to watch ethnic theatre and feel represented?

      British accolade for an ethnic Chinese in the UK is not about being accepted but what it can buy that person. As already mentioned with the Sir Wing Yip example.

      BBCs cant have their cake and eat it too. You cant want to be accepted and have your Chinese pride and yet do nothing about the way you are seen.

      In someways as a subculture we are similar to Somalians in that we just go about our business and dont make a fuss. The only difference is as an ethnic minority we both bigger than Somalians.

      If more effort spent on developing our own racial pride, British Chinese community would arguably be a lot healthier.

      But that our most notable FOB has an OBE for his chain of groceries, that automatically sets the standard for British Chinese social aspirations. Directionally, this is wrong.

      British Chinese can still exist within a multicultural society if we have developed our own cultural sensibilities. If we are unable to do that, then that means as ethnic Chinese, we are a transient identity to begin with and couldnt care less about our group representation except when it comes to our own selfish individualism.

      Also, by not protesting this kind of British Chinese representation, we are legitimising it. Which again explains the selfish BBC individualist mindset and path of least resistance laziness attitude we have adopted as a UK ethnic minority.

      Delete
  3. I'll direct you to a programme I just watched on iplayer - it's not available for long

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jv2jz/China_Close_Up_Image_is_Everything/

    just watch the first 2 minutes, it tells you all you need to know about whitewashing even for mainland Chinese.

    1) The guy says the greatest difference between "We Chinese" and foreigners are that "their manners are very refined".... "We Chinese don't pay much attention to detail".

    He's obviously only visited the tourist hotspots and talked to the official, trained guide tours!!! Maybe he should read just a few of our stories of ethnic Chinese being abused, assaulted and killed by these whites... VERY REFINED, you stupid idiot.

    Think about that for a minute. Have you ever heard a white man say "we whites do x and y".... and "they are so refined" - who the fuck negatively stereotypes their OWN race why positively doing it for another? I frequently tell whites who bitch about the Chinese that it's rather idiotic to stereotype over a billion of us into doing and acting the same way.... yet here we have Chinese doing it to themselves! This ties in nicely with the English teachers abroad article - inferiority complex, and racism vs their own people. We have our work cut out.


    2) 1m 30 in - train station billboards of white men and women - blonde/brunette, blue eyed, mixed/whites - fashion and women's magazines with whites on the cover (compare this to Indian version of magazines of Maxim, Glamour etc. who have Indian models and stories - the Chinese versions simply have the US (white) people on the covers translated.... maybe the white people in charge of such magazines saw how whitewashed we already were and didn't see the need to create our own localised version)..... a.kids' salon with pics of chinese girls with a British flag hat wearing traditional British girl costumes.... it is obvious where Chinese women (and women) get their ideas of beauty from, and because of that they idolise white beauty, and thus gear towards white breeding. Even the Indian government, which has a looser grip on laws than the Chinese one does, have obviously seen this cultural influence that whites can have on them... hence forcing western companies to adopt specific Indian oriented magazines - i.e. promoting Indian beauty etc....

    Why are the Chinese government not doing this, and why are the Chinese people (the guy interviewed and who open the salons is actively promoting such whitewashing) not even realising that their very existence, pride in identity etc. is being killed off? You would think that something so invasive would trigger a survivalist mentality amongst the Chinese, as it would for other peoples (and has done) around the world.... surely there are Chinese who can think for themselves without being brainwashed by the westernisation? It's not exactly subtle.

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    1. * it is obvious where Chinese women (and men)

      correction

      Delete
    2. Just watched the first part. First thought that comes to mind is its Shanghai. So arguably one of the most prestigious cities that prides itself on being 'civilised' or in other words 'whitewashed'. But yeah its interesting they chose to open the first dialogue with that bloke saying those lines.

      Similarly with the appeal of British aristocracy or elitism. Its why many FOBS look at it as a symbol of success. Its been discussed before regarding how Chinese look at music and want to emulate the west

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/chinese-classical-music.html

      The only difference in this article is that by accepting a knighthood, these same FOBS emulating British aristocracy, and perpetrating the values of colonialism and crusaderism, two values that screwed China, in the first place.

      OBE stands for 'Order of the British Empire'. Its as you say, some Chinese have no self pride. Im not even sure if there is an equivalent in China of a knighthood. Or whether China should employ it, but these kind of ceremonies of prestige is very much a western concept.

      Also apart from the photo above, I dont know that many famous British Chinese who aspire to owning this title. On the other hand many South Asians in the UK, do, very much so.

      Delete
  4. To be honest I'm not too fussed with Brits who are ethnic Chinese accepting knighthoods, awards and the like. Many people accept it without idolising the royal family, British aristocracy etc... the main thing is what Mr Yip is about. And he seems a good man - building up his business empire from scratch, serving the British ethnic Chinese community without resorting to whitewashed initiatives. If Sir gives him a bit more respect amongst the wider British people, good. Remember we are still British, we just want to ensure we remain ethnically Chinese for generations so that we continue to be "British Chinese" and not just "British mixed" or essentially white British (after generations of mixing).

    Washing out an identity like that is horrific, imagine your great great grand kids looking nothing like you, but more like a random white guy off the street? That is essentially what (mostly) Chinese women are doing in this country and the west.

    The whitewashing in that iplayer programme is just a snippet of things. This video (which I think should get its own topic so ethnic Chinese/East Asians can see it) summarises things perfectly - watch it all -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXVC_h5-Dg4

    ReplyDelete
  5. 'Asian women who alter their eyelids are turning their back on their ethnic identity' - This is an old Asian american vid, ive seen it before. And like the video says this is to do with low representation of Asians in the media.

    With British Chinese, I dont think theres many reports of eyelid surgery in the UK, not being a woman I wouldnt know. But one of the main differences is British has a hierarchical level,which is more about status whilst America is about looks. I think on the whole British people are more conservative and practical and 'dressing up' whilst aspiring to hi-culture in the UK is mainly to do with showing status, for work and meeting other high status people.

    From a status point of view, for Shanghainese , the people you mentioned in that video see being whitewashed as being civilised. Something they take pride in.

    On the other hand HK film stars Whilst they have their white-status lifestyle - cars fashion etc, the Canto-FOB style is kept distinctly separate.

    In Beijing, CCP government officials sending their kids to the west for expensive education. Ive even seen a Beijing film where a guy is sat in a room, supping a glass of wine, and he has a thin beard and kimono on, looking like a Japanese. Again this is Beijing culture still searching for its footing coming from a steelworks construction cultural Northern Chinese background.


    Then as other articles on this have discussed Chinese students wanting to learn English language to get better opportunities back to work in western companies in China.

    Its the same for every ethnic minority in the UK, this elitist aspiration has set the tone for global 'acceptability'.

    In fact I dont think China itself doesnt have a single level of aspiration, of status, to be western is great.

    In the example of the theatre, the acceptance is multilayered. You have British Chinese actors accepting roles in theatre plays for upper-middle class white audiences, that they think legitimises them as actors. In this respect, they think they have 'made it.' Although the parts they play are english language speaking, But then because the play itself contains sinophobic themes, it's another legitimised form of orientalisation but because they are grateful to be 'accepted'as English speaking artists, they do not question this.

    If however, that play didnt have sinophobic tendencies,like almost every other thing that is shown about Chinese in the UK, it would be acceptable.

    Because of the same hierarchy of acceptance, its the same reason we cannot have stories about British Born Chinese in a normal setting. Either you play the game, or you get lost. So why play the game?


    Because Chinese do not have high enough standards of refinement, any kind of adoption of western attitude for inclusion is farcical at best.But because everyone does it, its accepted as the norm.

    For BBCs, most of this doesnt really affect us, because of our regular middleclass British existance etc but as Chinese its something worth thinking about, because, if you arent part of 'the club' then you are outside it. And if you are, what is your cultural stance towards it ?

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  6. the moment damning thing about that youtube video is the non response from oriental women ... it speaks volumes. Especially re: that korean woman who is proud to be korean but hates koreans and wants white kids... white men see oriental women like that from a mile off, prey on the insecurity of their own identity and exploit it.

    What was noticeable was when the korean woman went back to the common room where all the girls were... as she explained herself and why she lost it, the white girls were giving her looks of pity - they were thinking "yeah, another confused oriental woman who doesn't know what she is".

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    1. in addition I don't recall a scenario where black or latino or asian (south) women need to explicitly mention their race in a "neutral situation" e.g. being auditioned, you would think it's obvious to others what your race is. It's a sure sign that one is insecure about it, and feels the need to raise it...

      Delete
  7. Dear Sirs,

    I would like to address the misconceptions of this blog. I understand that vitally, this message is posted not in response to this particular post on your blog, but actually addressed to most of the collection of posts I have read.

    1. Chinese people/culture is not homogeneous. British born Chinese come from different parts of China and may not necessarily relate to each other simply because they have the same label. The “label” Chinese itself is artificial. You simplify genetic and cultural differences and you ignore the diversity within the Han Chinese ethnic majority. Also, you alienate other minorities as part of the 55 ethnic minority groups by only referring to the strict traditional line of what “Chinese” is and ignore the integral role that the Han, Tang, Yuan, Qing and Ming dynasties had in culturally varying our conceptions of Chinese. I think you take a post-Sun Yat Sen view of Chinese and your traditional values seem to be closer to the South. We are all mixed some way or another. For you to reject mixing of Han Chinese and other peoples, or “Chinese” and other peoples ignores the fact that you are already “impure”.

    “Chinese Academy of Sciences into the gene frequency data of Han subpopulations and ethnic minorities in China, showed that Han subpopulations in different regions are also genetically close to the local ethnic minorities, and it means that in many cases blood of ethnic minorities has mixed into Han, while at the same time, blood of Han also has mixed into the local ethnicities”.

    Guangdong, which is where most BBCs have migrated from, interestingly have little genetic similarities with Central and Northern Chinese due to intermingling with South Asian cultures. Please do read some articles on geneticism. Particularly, those in the South before the conception of a modern China tended to mix with the Neanderthals as the Neanderthals died out. So, there are lots of differential strains anyway.

    In my opinion, genetics really doesn't justify classifying people into different races anyway. Racism and racial classifications are very artificial. I think that people happen to be born somewhere and that does not automatically make them a certain way or that they should be a certain way. South China therefore identified with the Han cultural identity and therefore can be considered Chinese in any sense.

    2. 中国化: The process of Sinicisation.

    每一个可以当中国人。Whoever possesses the天下ruled China. Idea that the Mandate of Heaven may allow for anyone to become Chinese. Heaven condones those who possess mastery of Chinese culture. Therefore, even white and black people can become Chinese. Why cannot those who are half Chinese and White gain your respect as a Chinese if this has been the tradition? Intermixing has always been a key part of Chinese history anyway.

    During the Ming conquest of Yunnan Chinese military colonists were settled in Yunnan, and married the native women.
    Han dynasty was outward looking; establishing the Silk Road and importing foreign customs into Chinese culture.
    Zheng He, the Muslim eunuch, Hui-Chinese, is still today celebrated as a Chinese hero.

    “To enable communication between China and the Central Asian kingdoms the Han established “directors of interpretation” throughout many Western Regions who had full knowledge of written and spoken Chinese. No longer deemed “slaves”, the peoples of this vast territory were promised security from the enemy and prosperity”

    “Tang China was multicultural: Foreign traders and envoys brought Islam, Zoroastrianism (popular with Central Asian people called Sogdians) and Nestorian Christianity. Any faith or pleasure could be found in Chang’an; Buddhism and Daoism flourished alongside Confucianism”

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    1. haha. Is this the same anti-southern Chinese troll that hates Sun Yat Sen? This time claiming southern Chinese cantonese interbred with Neanderthals, whatever next?

      Delete
  8. 3. You ignore the respect that British and West had for the Ming dynasty. The pope has a letter from the Ming princesses and princes converting to Christianity and asking for assistance during the wars against the Manchus. Britain admired the Ming courts. Ming was close to becoming a “democracy” according to several academic theses given the factional power struggles between the eunuchs. Ming dynasty China, interestingly, was built on very varying and fluid ideas on what “Chinese” could be. Why cannot we have the same sort of mutual respect for cultures in this day and age? It was actually the Tar Tars, or Manchus, that the British feared and had distaste for. The Manchus were technically not what was considered “Chinese” by the West or by the Hans in the initial invasion; but they were able to become rulers by becoming Sinocised. The Manchu people started sinicizing during the Qing dynasty. They originally had their own separate style of naming from the Han Chinese, but eventually adopted Han Chinese naming practices and adhering to Confucian culture, and being accepted as the rulers with the Mandate of Heaven. Again, an example of the potential for universal sinicisation.

    4. Han Chinese identity only having modern context after Taiping Tianguo, which was led by a Chinese Christian; importation of Western ideas actually led to a significant challenge to the Manchu Empire. Further modernised by Sun Yat Sen, after his reformulating Benedict Anderson’s nation state model. Our conception of Chinese is totally different from the ancients, because of Western literature. Since it appears you have not read the ancient texts on the viability of the Sinicisation of different races regardless of genetics (which altogether is a Western scientific phenomenon, and ultimately, a phenomenon which shows that Han Chinese are totally mixed and North have genetic differences from South) I think you need more research. See the literature.

    5. China fought of imperialism and revised its identity through use of blending Western and Eastern modes of thinking. The Western travelling diaspora such as Zhou Enlai and the scholars of Western thought such as Lu Xun. See The True Story of Ah Q. Traditional Chinese culture was seen as driving the Chinese state backwards, hence the success of Communism. Rather than having a hierachical structure, they were able to empower women “women hold half of the sky”. Your ideas of womens’ roles are outdated. Even China did not have a stagnant conception of what Chinese women had to do: think about for example the Tang. They married others from different ethnicities and were almost as powerful and in the same rank as men.

    Finally, please stop reinventing Chinese culture for the purposes of your own interpretation. Unless you let others do the same. China’s emperors made Chinese culture fit for their own cultural purposes, such as the Qing, Yuan and Tang rulers that had “foreign” blood. Furthermore, identity has been longstandingly used as a political tool. Can we now let people have control over their views on how Chinese culture can be relevant to their life? After all, there are so many different types of Chinese culture that you can see through the ages. Most diaspora populations from the Southern parts tend to have a very Ming-centric view of China. But even the Ming had very strong Muslim ties; there were rumours that the first ruler was a Muslim – these rumours were spread across the kingdom to draw support from the neighbour states.

    Thank you,

    A concerned reader of Chinese history

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    1. This is all immaterial to British Born Chinese and very reminicent of Chinese pro-Western fantacists. It's the same old Chinese fantasy of overcoming your enemies not by force but "sinicizing" them. All very good for ancient China but I assure you times have changed. In fact the rise of Europe and Japan finally showed China that sinification of the enemy would never be possible again.

      "每一个可以当中国人"

      Oh dear you're not Chinese are you? Did you use Babelfish to write this?

      "A concerned reader of Chinese history"

      More like a concerned white hobbyist. No offense intended btw and please correct me if I'm wrong.

      You're really not getting what this blog is about though are you? I'm a British Born Chinese and I speak Mandarin and visit China regularly but I can tell you you're really wasting your breath with all this Chinese historical jargon. Overseas Chinese are not an arm of the Chinese ruling class nor are we part of a grander plan for world sinification. We are simply another ethnic minority trying to make a living and, more recently, fighting for greater equality and representation (or less misrepresentation) in the media.

      Delete
    2. Haha exactly, bro. These white/white subcategory trolls need to end their copy and paste fantasies and do something more productive. Like suicide, for example.

      Delete
  9. http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/a-north-south-chinese-mix-cline-in-se-asia/

    Further reading. Thank you, Sirs.

    A funny commentary about the Southern-Northern divide:

    In 1730, Kangxi emperor made the observation in the Tingxun Geyan (庭訓格言):[2][3]


    The people of the North are strong; they must not copy the fancy diets of the Southerners, who are physically frail, live in a different environment, and have different stomachs and bowels.

    —Kangxi emperor, Tingxun Geyan (庭訓格言)

    Please also see http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/

    ReplyDelete
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    1. 'Robertlindsay'

      A very Chinese-name sounding authority.

      Thanks but no thanks, jew-troll.

      Delete
    2. Robert Lindsay blog is nothing more than a troll blog.

      Delete
  10. “Chinese Academy of Sciences into the gene frequency data of Han subpopulations and ethnic minorities in China, showed that Han subpopulations in different regions are also genetically close to the local ethnic minorities, and it means that in many cases blood of ethnic minorities has mixed into Han, while at the same time, blood of Han also has mixed into the local ethnicities”.


    What's the source ? or are we supposed to take a random troller's word for it?


    " Guangdong, which is where most BBCs have migrated from, interestingly have little genetic similarities with Central and Northern Chinese due to intermingling with South Asian cultures "


    Pure rubbish, most HKer's and " Southerners " are direct descendants from the Han. 劉 Liu Pang , ever heard of him ? Is it a co-incidence that his name is exactly the same as another iconic Cantonese Liu ( Lau )劉 ?

    Fact is the Han migrated wholesale to the South in the 1st and 2nd century and literally annihilated all the natives and drove them back to what is Thailand and Vietnam.

    If anything the Northerners are the mixed breeds, that's where the Mongols attacked the most, and a lot of Northerners are DARK cause Mongols ARE dark.

    Riding around the fields everyday tends to do that to your skin.

    BTW, your so called ethnic minorities are less than 5% of a 1.2B population, negligible. Chinese are still the most homogenous race on earth.

    End of...


    MingZhou !

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  11. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/15/1339761897238/Woody-Allen-and-Soon-Yi-P-001.jpg

    Sexy time!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi MingZhou,

    1. I never said that Northerners were not pure Han. They are very mixed because of the consistent Northern invasions.

    There was a lot of mixing during the Tang, Yuan, Qing and even throughout the history of China. This was also the case with the Southern Chinese, especially when the heights of the Chinese empire attracted the merchantile waves of migration from the vassal states such as Vietnam (for example in the Ming dynasty).

    Interestingly, I've met loads of people who identify themselves as Han Chinese and then found out from their grandparents that they have foreign blood in them. It's safer for lots of people to come out as being of ethnic minority blood in post-Republican China mainly because the CCP values its multicultural empire.

    2. You can't stop at the Han dynasty and think that that is the end all. Tang was known for its multiculturalism and then, of course, you can think of the consistent changing of borders of the subsequent dynasties.

    3. I went to Mongolia, lived with locals. Generally people are very light until they reach a certain age. They have similar genetic similarities to the Russians. And that's without suncream!

    4. Chinese Academy of Sciences: http://english.cas.cn/ Please see it for yourself, sir. http://english.cas.cn/ST/BR/br_progress/201008/t20100819_57683.shtml (with genetic variation most prevalent in the South).

    What I'm saying is we should not be racist or try and perpetuate this artificial idea of a "stagnant" race. Racism is terrible. Let's not provide the inspiration for a neo-Nazi complex of an Han race akin to that of the Aryan ideal.



    Some sources for you to enjoy reading (absolutely fascinating), some can only be accessed with a University or academic ID, check Jstor.org and perhaps hop down to your local national library. Sadly, a lot of these resources are not open to the lay person and may only be accessible via academic institutions or research think tanks.:

    Genetic Studies of Human Diversity in East Asia
    Feng Zhang, Bing Su, Ya-ping Zhang and Li Jin


    How Chinese Turkestan Became Chinese: Visualizing Zhang Zhizhong's "Tianshan Pictorial" and Xinjiang Youth Song and Dance Troupe
    Justin Jacobs


    The Demography of East and Southeast Asia from the 1950s to the 2000s A Summary of Changes and a Statistical Assessment

    Isabelle Attané, Magali Barbieri, M. Barbiéri, Emily Divinagracia, Catriona Dutreuilh, Duncan Fulton, Krystyna Horko, Rob Reay-Jones, Godfrey Rogers

    Wrestling with the Connotation of Chinese 'Minzu'
    Zhang Haiyang

    Anthropological study: http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/wo-papers-on-genetic-structure-of-han.html

    American Journal of Human Genetics:
    http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(09)00471-6

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Theres that reference to Nazi's again. This Jew troll never gives it a rest does he? Funny how he spends so much energy on trying to convince Chinese that race doesnt exist with is pseudocopy and pasting and yet Jews themselves spend so much time trying to figure out their own ancestry.

      Can only conclude that its part of the Jewish mindset to be jealous of what they cannot have. In this case, an identifiable, traceable rich and diverse ethnic history, like us Chinese.

      Next thing he'll be telling us is we are all related to the men from mars.

      Delete
    2. Most of your so called analysis is based on your own ignorant non Chinese speaking views, backed with hearsay and bogus research that can't be accessed, the ones that can are from blogs run by private gweilohs.

      Mongols are relatively dark skinned, anyone can see from non fixed photos:

      http://www.mongolbible.com/html/about_us.html


      So what if there are some that are mixed with Russians - those are not pure Mongols. Stupid point.

      History does not stop at the Han, indeed but the Tang official language was CANTONESE not Mandarin, further confirming that the original "Northerners" were Cantonese, you clown.

      Also it is undoubted that the proto Viets/ Thais were no match for the Han, they stood 0 chance, stone age vs the metal age - instant death. All recorded all fact.

      Some of their women were used as sex slaves - true but how long can their genes last ? They will be the last generation of pure Viet/Thai, no other Viet/ Thais were allowed to settled in South China after that, none, zero.

      So after 2000 years and X generations in a depreciating time series ^ xxx, how much non Chinese genes are left ? A mere decimal point maybe.

      This fact. end of.


      Check out a random HK man vs a Japanese in terms of lightness:

      http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/08/0821_most_successful_immigrants/26.htm

      http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/77407/indonesia-decorates-former-japanese-pm-fukuda

      Who is the " Northerner ", all you Chinese haters will no doubt never ever dispute that Japanese people are "northern", yet LKS, a random example looks like yasuda's brother.

      So bullshit, we HKers/ Cantonese are just as much
      " Northern " as any other high oriental, not that we really care.

      A lot of people out there now are angry and jealous that they cannot break our unique culture spearheaded by us Canto guys, so they resort to false defamation. Loser - pariahs, F off, we don't know you, we don't want to know you.


      Ming !!

      Delete
  13. naming practices were adopted by ethnic minorities quite a lot. You have to remember that Chinese was used as the written language for many different populations because it was pictorial and therefore not linked necessarily to pronounciation. Hence why classical chinese is so different to colloquial chinese.

    (Extreme examples: Japanese, Koreans and other populations used Chinese as their writing form and used Chinese names and then started adopting their own phonetic alphabets). Trying to develop genetic links through similarities in naming is therefore futile.

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    1. Only associated races to the Chinese used Hanzi, where are all these " other populations " ?

      The Mongols don't use Hanzi.

      I'm sure as a Jew/ Jew lover/ Half breed you will be tremendously bitter at this but Chinese was forced down the throats of these " other populations ".

      Korea was conquered many times by China for a combined total of nearly a millennium, they had no choice but to use Chinese till much later.

      Japan's history officially stops at the year 0 bc, where they came from previous to this is uncertain, but given the highly similar looks and culture my bet is China.

      Give it up, Chins IS the original East Asian race much like Germany was to Europe.

      NiDe FuJin De Gangmen !!!

      Mng

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  14. In the end, you can never be pure. WHat you can take with you, however, is your cultural values. So even if people are mixed, let them be considered Chinese. And if they do marry other races, they can still be considered Chinese and not a sell out. Ethnic diversity is very natural in the development of the human race.

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    1. The racial war was created by non Chinese. Indeed as we should all know by now, it was created by colonisers. It is also arguably being perpetuated to this very day by the same mindset. In the UK it has created the hierarchy of values clearly evident in the photos you see presented in this article. As long as these values exist, a humanistic system can only be a philosophy for the individual, but as a social practice,and more importantly from an ethnic local collective perspective, race will continue to define until those rules are changed.

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    2. It seems to me, the only person obsessed with racial purity is the anonymous troll. We have not posted any articles on the anthropological history of the Chinese race through civilisations, I have little interest in the subject as it has nothing to do with BBC history, culture or the future.

      Its very convenient our troll deliberately ignores out an entire century of western oppression, the opium war and invasion by foreign imperialist powers and the even The Cold War and even the West's modern sinophobic hatred of Chinese, instead we must ignore that and just breed with white people because people have interbreed throughout history! Ethnic genocide, who cares! Its all very natural in the development of the huamn race! survival of the fittest! Races come and go! Look at history! Water off a duck back!

      Do you think a Chinese person who is being beaten up by a white person and called a chink for no other motive than racism..is going to neutralise the white man by saying "hey, dont beat me up, we're all part of the same race, the human race, we all mixed race!"

      Doesn't matter if a chinese person is racially murdered by a white...we're all going to die sooner or later! its nature! its all part of the natural development of the human race! survival of the fittest, how deterministic of you!

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    3. Exactly, so whether one defines race as a genetic or social construct boils down to the same thing.

      The group known as " Chinese " is in the UK a highly identifiable and well defined group, whatever the methodology used.

      I know, you know, they know who we all mean by the Chinese.

      Ming.

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    4. As a half breed that is not your call to make.

      Why now all of a sudden do you want to be Chinese ?

      Is it not because China might be the next superpower and you want to jump aboard whilst it is still cool.

      And if something does happen, I guess you will tuck tail and run back to being " European " or whatever you are mixed with.

      Bullshit I say, we don't need you especially if you have a European father. You need to confront your mother straight in face and slap her if need be.


      Ming !

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  15. This is a British Chinese blog, not a China anthropology blog.

    Our history as British Chinese began when our Chinese parents settled in the UK and gave birth to us, Black history for British Blacks begins with 'Windrush,' not a historical study of the genetic make up African tribes 2000 years ago, which is what you're alluding to using Chinese examples.

    My concept of 'Chineseness' is influenced by my parents and my HK ancestral roots, the settlement remains there today and as it has been for centuries, inter racial breeding was unheard of til western migration during 70s.

    I said mixed race are of Chinese descent, but not ethnic Chinese. Our ethnicity is neither determined by genetic DNA testing nor the mandate of heaven - rather the sociological and legal constructions within our nation state, there are no two nations that share the same ethnic census. The ethnicity box is 'Chinese,' the UK census doesn't distinguish between different Chinese, however a distinction exists between Chinese and mixed race Eurasian, Chinese and Eurasian are therefore different ethnicities. Your genetic anthropological arguments are frankly useless, no one is going to take DNA test for accuracy, are they?

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    1. You completely ignore how power structures work within society which is what I'm concerned with, not ethnic purity.

      The intermixing sinicisation examples you give are of 'foreigners' assimilating into China's population. We live in the UK NOT China. In the UK, BBCs are suppressed ethnic minorities forced to assimilate into a western nation state under the cultural hegemony of a majority white population, they are breeding into the white population and are therefore dissolving their ethnic identity.

      It's not as simple as cultural preservation. How you physically look and what ethnicity your parents are, how you were raised, what languages you were raised with and how you react to your local environment etc are important factors that determine who you are and your identity. Many BBC's cant even speak Chinese and don't follow Chinese culture, Eurasians are raised by a white parent, many cant speak a word of Chinese nor do they follow Chinese culture, if a BBC then marries non-Chinese - their offspring will eventually blend into the dominant white population rendering them physically and culturally indistinguishable from a white person.

      Blacks, Whites, Eurasians etc can be Chinese through nationality, not ethnicity. The white men married to Chinese women in the UK are neither Chinese nationals nor ethnic Chinese. You arguments are simply irrelevant and cannot be applied to the UK.

      There is no problem with ethnic identity being used as a political tool, just as class is as a political tool, long may political activism continue.

      As for your points about women, I have not made any comments about the role of women, I have no idea where you dragged that from nor anywhere on the blog does it say that Chinese culture and people are homogenous?

      Pete sums you up in a nutshell, you have completely failed to understand the purpose of this blog, but its to be expected, pro-china forumers are not overseas born Chinese therefore haven't got a clue about diaspora issues beyond genetics and migration.

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    2. I agree!

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    3. Then perhaps you might drop the C in your BBC.

      Whatever way you look at it, it comes down to a racial definition of one kind or another. YOU are being defined as Chinese in the UK with all the ensuing issues that brings, as you keep telling the world.

      And yes for all practical purposes, it is a pure definition, at least that is what you keep saying viz the 'hapas ' as you call them.

      I think I am most qualified to talk about this as I live both in UK, and the F.East


      MIngggggg !

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    4. I am a Malaysian British Chinese and I live in the UK as well, but I believe, the above poster called 'Ming' maybe be jealous because he does not possess an O.B.E. like myself.

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    5. send me a free sack of fragrant rice Sir Wing Yip

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    6. I am sorry, you have to give back to my, I mean, the community first.

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