Thursday, 3 May 2012

What BBC's Can Learn From The Boxer Rebellion

 What BBC's Can Learn From The Boxer Rebellion

Here is an observation recently made by BBCZeitgeist:

 
"BBC's are very self-orientated and lack a collective unity as they were brought up/raised in isolation from other BBC's and do not know how to relate nor empathise with other BBC/Chinese outside of the confines of the take-away/family bubble, outside the bubble their social circles are pretty much white/indian/black etc, in other words they've assimilated, they have the same mindset as a white person, they do not look at Britain under an ethnic Chinese context."


Based on the above,  is establishing a single British Born Chinese identity a practical, or even realistic option?




From wiki:

 "The Boxers began as an anti-foreign, anti-imperialist peasant-based movement in northern China. They attacked foreigners who were building railroads and violating Feng shui, as well as Christians, who were held responsible for the foreign domination of China. In June 1900, the Boxers invaded Beijing and killed 230 non-Chinese. Tens of thousands of Chinese Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, were killed mostly in Shandong and Shanxi Provinces as part of the uprising."



Boxers embodied the fighting spirit of China - huge numbers of soldiers made up of martial artists, working class,  with nothing to lose and a huge appetite to fight against Religious infiltration from the west - Christian missionaries - or pushers under the guise of missionaries trading their opium.

QUESTIONING 'UNITY'

On BBC Ronin's blog where he felt the extreme nature of Chinese pride expressed on this blog was that of Fenging 愤青 or angry youths, I commented that an extreme Chinese pride attitude is logistically an antidote to fix our British Born Chinese culture because of the following:

  •  Geographical dispersal due to family take-away background
  •  Placated whorish attitude that is the foundation of British Chinese cultural identity
  • Apathy towards Chinese pride from most BBC's
  •  Negative/invisible portrayal of Chinese in the media/tabloids
  •  Controversial mixed race agenda, whether you care to overlook this or not, is a factual reality.
  •  BBCS only make up roughly 28% against a 72% FOB majority

Like Boxers,  for BBCs it's a fight to retain our ethnic cultural pride, but how?

BBCs, similar to Boxers, seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place, in that we neither are happy with where our culture is but at the same time feel we can do little about it to create a unified sense of purpose, and one reason is the lack of a central focus for Chinese in the U.K.

Whilst Muslims, Sikhs, Blacks have their own culturely strongly entrenched in their own religion, and FOBs religiously organise their own mah-jong /card game meetups, the only event that comes to mind of large masses of BBCs meeting up is for hedonistic pleasure such as clubs, which whilst necessary for youth culture, do not do anything for a centralising and developing our own cultural identity.

With the UK being largely a Christian culture not to mention the rise of Islamic beliefs , in comparison with the flexible East Asian Buddhist belief, apart from our own Chinatown, which is largely for FOB groceries and herbal practice,  BBCs do not have our own place of regular meet up.

Finally when you combine the above with the natural secretive/introverted nature of Chinese, and our tribalistic Chinese nature, it's questionable as to how BBCs can get any kind of unification beyond what we already have today i.e facebook and British Chinese online forums, if we do not resort to establishing our own sense of Chinese pride as as a workable alternative.

A PRACTICAL ALTERNATIVE TO RELIGION

All that said, here is a plan for establishing our own sense of BBC cultural identity.

1/ Sharing what the idea of ethnic Chinese pride means for us as individuals and how we integrate this into our daily lives with a view to openly respecting each other's principles, by listening first.

2/ Build better connection with all other ethnic Chinese in your local area and create awareness between our different Chinese communities around the UK with small acts of public generosity - smiling to a stranger, giving someone your public transport seat, offering to help a stranger in need.

3/ Harass our British Born Chinese leader  to organise an open and supportive network for all ethnic Chinese in and visiting the UK



4/ Hassle our tycoons and promoters  who have benefitted from our community to support  the organisation of an independent British Born Chinese Online Media Channel sending their donations to a fund organised with the help of this website  in order to:
a/  Organise Beauty Pageants to celebrate BBC women, first before mainstream media does


b/ Report anti-Chinese incidents to create racial awareness, rather than pretend it doesn't exist.


c/ Interviews/TV shows with storylines that examine deeper issues that affect us as an ethnic community, as we continuously refine our own Chinese identity.

d/ Create and support our own pop, culture and fashion icons.
5/ Oppose western social engineering by participating in a regulated but inclusive media that we can all feel free to express ourselves, to bridge the gap between our given geographical dispersal and  westernised individualism and celebrate our ethnicity, diversity and ethnic pride.

If BBCs do not have a central focal point, such as religion,  as a marginalised cultural identity, how else can we create solidarity? And if a British Born Chinese media can act as a cultural mirror for ourselves, examine controversial issues that BBCs  face such as racism, cultural identity, and interracial relationships, why hasn't it been done yet? And if a BBC media ever got off the ground what would you like to see?






49 comments:

  1. I don't get your point, you are claiming BBC to be some sort of unique ' Chinese 'identity and yet you immediately cut of the so called
    ' FOBs '.

    Without them, your numbers are null, you don't have a chance.

    BTW, I'm not necessarily attacking you but I don't understand your strategy.

    Ming.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The point is to find out whether BBCs can unite or connect over a centralising issue, whether religion, or if not, whether our own British Chinese media would be something that would help us understand our own cultural identity.

      Re: FOBS, yes If they make up the bigger number obviously they would be part of the programming, students, elders, but it would hopefully be run by BBCs, who would hopefully want to take some responsibility of how they are viewed in British society.

      Seeing as BBCs have been here for a while now, surely we'd have something interesting to say about ourselves or how we want to see ourselves? In the arts, music, career, worklife etc, at least to begin with. Later, the more controversial topics could be discussed.

      Delete
  2. oh man, i don't what to say "Organise Beauty Pageants to celebrate BBC women, first before mainstream media does"

    ham sup

    LOL!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thats not ham sup, thats respectful to BBC women, because if BBCs celebrate our own women first,( thats women AND men) it could help in less of the issues seen here

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/playcantonese_23.html

      and less of those like Analiza Ching

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/analiza-ching.html

      who are chosen by the mainstream to 'represent' ethnic Chinese women in the UK.

      Delete
  3. "In June 1900, the Boxers invaded Beijing and killed 230 non-Chinese. Tens of thousands of Chinese Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, were killed mostly in Shandong and Shanxi Provinces as part of the uprising."

    As much as I respect the boxers for standing up to the foreigners, they still killed far more of their fellow Chinese.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A lot of those " Chinese " were the Eurolicking type - Hankahn, traitors, most of them deserved it.

      If I was alive then, I'd gladly join my hengdai in fighting these parasite faggots.

      Yut Yui Wai Ding , Wing Yeun Kwut Heeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiii !!!!!

      Ming

      Delete
    2. ^ Exactly.

      Now to what extent BBCS/British Chinese would go to reclaim a unified sense of pride is another matter.

      Delete
  4. The Boxers are an analogy used for Chinese pride, and unity amongst Chinese.

    But in the context of the article, are you saying, you'd rather have mainstream media misrepresent BBCs/Chinese in the UK than an independent British Born Chinese media? Because thats what it seems like to me.

    And if you dislike the boxer analogy, what else do you suggest for a British Born Chinese identity rather than what we have now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Boxers are an anachronistic symbol of Chinese pride which failed and ultimately caused far more misery and death to their fellow Chinese than the invading Europeans.

      If we want to be taken seriously we need to emulate Asian America and call for a more united pan-East Asian stance even though almost all East Asians in the UK are Chinese. We need to rally around the victims of racist crimes against East Asian people (such as the case of Simon San) in the same way that Asian America rallies itself around the murder of Vincent Chin and the more recent murder of Danny Chen the Marine.

      By calling it East Asian pride, we're going to be invoking less of a feeling of racial animosity from the rest of the UK. By focusing purely on our Chinese ethnicities you'll just get bullshit reactions from a lot of the locals like "free Tibet!", "Stop killing baby girls!". I can promise you that British Chinese are not the only East Asian in the UK that face racism.

      Delete
    2. Re: boxer description, I disagree.

      As Ming said above, the slaughtered Chinese were sellout Chinese and as the following states:

      After the fall of the Qing dynasty, nationalist Chinese too became sympathetic to the Boxers. Chen Duxiu forgave the "barbarism of the Boxer... given the crime foreigners committed in China", and contended that it was those "subservient to the foreigners" that truly "deserved our resentment"

      There are certain standards that need to be set up for a British Chinese media. Firstly, considering self-promoting hapas and sellouts have blotted BBCs out, they should not be in control of this media, because otherwise that would be repeating history and choking to death any BBC representation before its even begun Ie using the term' East Asian' under the guise of yet another orientalist Yellow Earth joke pisstakers being run by hapas at the expense of Chinese representation in the UK.

      For me,this British Born Chinese media would empower BBCs to be humanised and normalised, rather than invisible and misrepresented by selfish members of British Chinese 'community',so it'd be nice to hear what other BBCs have to say on this.

      Secondly its important that this media is for British Chinese because of the severe malrepresentation of Chinese in the UK has had to put up with by racist media. Other East Asians British Vietnamese, Korean Japanese Thai no problem, but this needs to be British Chinese run, for Chinese in the UK first and foremost, especially if Chinese FOBs will fund this.

      Re: facing racism,what group of East Asian are you refering to ?

      Delete
  5. "Other East Asians British Vietnamese, Korean Japanese Thai no problem, but this needs to be British Chinese run, for Chinese in the UK first and foremost, especially if Chinese FOBs will fund this."

    That goes without saying. After all we Chinese people in the UK massively outnumber other East Asians. It's more about perception than anything else.

    "Re: facing racism,what group of East Asian are you refering to ?"

    As long as they exist they'll be facing it. I remember an incident near my home many years ago when a Korean man was murdered in front of his wife and child by a group of black men.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Again its all to do with numbers of willing volunteers.anyone who would be willing or anyone willing to start this up, as its quite a big project, email bbczeitgeist@hotmail.co.uk , detailing your background, ethnicity, and reason for showing interest, as this is not the job of one or two people, it takes dedication.

      As long as this project deals with ethnic Chinese, BBCs, FOBS and NOT self promoting eurasians or sellouts I am willing as a writer to make a contribution to help create a positive representation of BBCs, that is if there are enough BBC contributors.

      Its one thing to complain about Chinese misrepresentation in the media, and race issues, its another to actually attempt to do something about it.

      Delete
    2. ^ also forgot to mention: in the email state what role you'd want to play in creating this, writer, fund collector etc.

      Delete
  6. Only Viets that are Huaren need apply.

    Otherwise you will find your ranks flooded with people who will have nothing in common with Chinese in terms of look, culture, language, feel, behaviour.

    Quite easy to tell them apart - Viets per se are much more related to Thais, Malays, Indos etc.

    I've noticed this as many now are trying to jump onto the China next superpower bandwagon.

    Sorry no more compromises - Chinese 4 Chinese.

    Note: This applies mainly to non HIGH orientals, I am as yet undecided about the Japanese and Koreans.


    Ming

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you mean by Huaren?

      Delete
    2. why not make it your mission to find out ?

      Ming

      Delete
    3. Can you not just tell me so that your point is clear to me?

      Delete
    4. What race are you ?


      Ming

      Delete
    5. It's your own post and I've asked you politely to explain it a little better, if not for me then at least for other people who read your post.

      Delete
    6. Answer the Q then we'll talk:

      What race are you ?


      Ming

      Delete
    7. The point you make of excluding this group is quite bold. I just think that you should explain it properly, that's all. For the sake of everyone. This shouldn't be too difficult for you as you seem to keen to exclude them.

      Delete
    8. Bold ? Exclude ?

      You dare take that line w/o knowing what a huaren is ?

      I bet even the BBCs, who lived all their lives UK know what it is.

      It was a test to see who you really are - and from this I/we can only deduce that you are not ethnically Chinese.

      As has been oft repeated here, the labels of ethnicity is as important as anything else, less we let in people who have no interest in real Chinese affairs and are there for a free ride on our great name, which we fought literally with blood and tears, to regain.

      After a while they will hijack the movement and turn it into promoting whatever non Chinese sub group they belong to.

      To me, it's looking like all Chinese.

      Ming ! Huaren/ Zhong Guo ren BuBi Lingwai de !!!!!

      Delete
    9. You're just being stubborn. There are other readers besides BBCs on here and you don't care to explain it for them? And you're talking about hijacking? Don't you think that all BBEastAsians should work together to help the BBCs? BBCs are the largest BBEastAsian group. How could any other subgroup ever hijack it? What happybritishchinese wants to achieve can't happen over night. It's a project that needs all the help it can get. It needs teamwork. Other non-Chinese BBEastAsians have to realise that to develop their own BB(whatever East Asian ethnicity they are) culture, that it starts with BBCs developing their culture. You really shouldn't be against any other BBEastAsians - they've experienced a lot of the things you've experienced growing up in Britain, with other kids assuming that they are Chinese cos that's the only ethnicity they know. You shouldn't assume that they will hijack it. Non-Chinese BBEastAsians can help in aspects which are not specifically Chinese related, for example, stuff to do with racism. Also you don't know what it's like to be a non-Chinese British East Asian whether Huaren or not. The key-word is being British - you think that non-Huarens are bitter towards BBCs after what they experience growing up in Britain? You think these British kids would have underlying motifs against BBCs? Like I said, don't be so against others. This needs all the help it can get.

      Delete
    10. I'ts as Ribena states, this definately needs teamwork. TBH what British Chinese community lacks is structure and as best as this blog can provide as a social platform, and a base for sharing our experiences, these issues need to IMO reach the wider British Chinese community, especially those that have more influence , as Ming says, the FOBS.

      A British Chinese media would need collaboration from serious minded people, regular contributors, funded and structured by advertising from ethnic British East Asian businesses. I dont pretend to have any authority on this topic, but as I stated above, I am willing to contribute as a writer and offer advice on planning, if anyone wants to take the initiative and if either of you two have connections or know anyone who would be interested in organising, funding, dont hesitate to contact us through the blog, with the details.

      Again, its as the other anonymous states, commercial/entertainment is one thing but social issues/identity/awareness is the most important of all.

      Delete
  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  8. What race are you ?

    Since you do not answer this simple Q, we have to assume that you are not Chinese, nor do you speak Chinese, or you have something to hide.

    My advice to you is form your own racial group.

    End of


    Ming

    ReplyDelete
  9. As older BBCs, our aim should be to educate young BBCs - the kids of immigrants, much like we were, prevent them from indoctrination into being whitewashed like so many of us have been. Teaching the FOB parents to place more emphasis on retaining pride in roots should be a priority too.


    Anyway, don't really know where to put this, someone should probably do a proper writeup for this growing occurence, but for now I'm just cataloguing incidents (much like this blog is cataloguing assaults and miscarriages of justice vs ethnic Chinese) whenever it happens - another case of British media using a "them orientals" approach to their writing.

    The Guardian - supposedly a left wing paper - the opposite of the Daily Mail - and that pillar of equality and fairness, relative to all other media outlets - released this story:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/13/cp-foods-birds-eye-bid

    "First they came for Weetabix. Now a second giant Asian corporation is eyeing our fish fingers."


    .......... who is "they"? Orientals? East Asians? I find it difficult to understand the mentality of such writers - in this case, a Gwyn Topham - is he still under the mindset of Yellow Peril, reds under the bed etc.??? Some may argue that people from all Asia do the same for white Europeans, British, Americans... but the key difference being they ARE all white. Here not only do we have different cultures, history, languages, religions.... but different races too. Yet this guy - and no doubt many others - somehow have lumped China with Thailand - we're all just "they", apparently.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh no, those dastardly orientals bought up our precious British Birds Eye!

      Yup, lumping us all in as the 'other'. This is one thing that wealthy mainlanders and investors in UK, need to be made aware more aware of.

      In an ideal world interviewing the new Chinese owner of weetabix ,would be a good media story for the British Chinese channel:

      'Are you aware British media consider your act of British investment as a yellow peril threat to British tradition?

      Would love to hear an honest answer to that one.

      'We dont give a s--t' haha

      Delete
    2. this is an excellent idea and much more well thought that the one i had proposed. i would absolutely want to be involved in this.

      we should keep the momentum going and get this up and running

      please get in touch - Wai********@gmail.com

      Delete
  10. The Boxer rebellion failed because it was just a small group with large ambitions - it failed to achieve a critical mass and with the majority of ethnic Chinese not in support/against them, it faded away with the first sign of foreign military. Much like this BBC pride movement will fail, as the majority of BBCs couldn't care less about being whitewashed.

    If the ethnic Chinese actually cared about foreign influence back then to take arms, they would not have been a walkover. Indeed the Boxer rebellion wouldn't even be a rebellion, it would be a full on war with people defending their homeland against white invaders. Much like the Chinese got together during WW2 to fend off the Japanese invasion.

    If the Chinese had the same mentality regarding whites as they did with the Japanese, the Boxer Rebellion would've grown and been an establishment for future generations as a sign of Chinese defiance against foreign influence.

    As it is, it has been confined to the history books as a failure, and crucially, given the Chinese second thoughts about trying the same again. That is why we do not have an anti-foreign/far right racist element, as there is in Japan and Korea, and of course America and Europe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Regardless of the metaphor for a British Born Chinese media we use be Boxers or any other Chinese history metaphor, the fact remains that a British Chinese media that shares who British Chinese are with each other is important and nurturing to UK ethnic Chinese identity.

      In this respect, the sentiment of the boxers still remains. Whether one or two men speaks out for his people or whether it's a whole army, the point is that initiative has been taken.

      It's irrelevant whether any effect has been made. That it was made, by conscious, deliberate, effort, is the point. And by the views counter on your right you can see that it HAS visibly made an effect.

      As for Japan and Korea having anti-foreign sentiment, that only happened once those countries got well and truly occupied by US military bases. Even Japan's involvement in the Opium War was consipicously western influenced, yes it's possible its had it's balls in the grasp of imperialists since back then. Korea is similar and that both countries hold their values strong is only reactionary to their colonisation by western forces and being whitelicking beyond belief.

      With the gaps of unease appearing in western culture of Europe, USA and UK, with people being continually disgruntled at selfish imperialist manipulation , unless people continue to remain with their heads buried in the sand, its questionable as to the effect of how long white privilege can last on a global scale.

      You can also see the strength of China buying up many of Western businesses and overseas.

      On a street-level can also begin to see Beijingers waking up to falsehood that is white privilege here:

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/rape-chinese-girl.html?showComment=1337686556839#comment-c1580741312104825395

      If China has worked so hard to get to where it is now ,in fighting colonisation,and now finally enjoying a sense of middleclass development that most of the rest of the world already enjoys, I don't think they will give it up so easily, do you?

      Delete
  11. This is just horrifying. Do you even know your Chinese history? The boxers were a bunch of superstitious, ignorant, racist, xenophobic,misogynistic,thugs who terrorized first and for most the Chinese people themselves. At least the Tai Ping rebels had some redeeming qualities, the boxers had none.

    It is really sad and perverted that you romanticize these people because you have such a big chip on your shoulder.

    What good is a "strong China" if the Chinese people have no right and dignity? If you are a slave, how is the fact that your master is rich and strong makes your situation better? If you know a bit of Chinese history, it is not hard to conclude that the Chinese have suffered much worse abuse in the hands of fellow Chinese than 'foreigners'. Read some Lu Xun or Bo Yang to get a clue.

    "National pride" is just a different face of racism as both are the manifestations of the same underlying irrationality. How can you be proud or ashamed of something which you have not done? The way to combat racism is to build bridges, break down walls and embrace universal values, not to create more tribal enclaves.

    And pray tell, which is your 'Nation"? The U.K or China? Most of you would not even be considered Chinese if you were to emigrate to China (and why don't you?) How many of you can read and write Chinese fluently?

    Yes, I am Chinese and I find it very misguided to try to fight racism with racism.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why do you FOBS always bring up reading and writing Chinese fluently as if to equate that to having Chinese pride? Is that because the only Chinese pride that works is the one that works for you?

      You sound like yet another white-worshipping FOB who in your seemingly superior knowledge of China, bulldozes over opinions without understanding the context of which they are discussed.

      The context here is British Born Chinese identity. 'reaching out, building bridges,embracing universal values' is basically what the UK Chinese community already embraces, and in it's current dissolved, non-communicative, sold out state - do you consider that a strong social identity? If anything these globalised values have created those same tribalist enclaves that you so criticize.

      In practice, your values have done little to connect Chinese together in the UK, and in it's current state, absolutely destroyed any sense of identity for BBCs, leaving the majority of us like dumb thatcherite cows in a field discussing cake recipes online and being mediators for FOB parents who could care less for a genuine connected British Chinese community.

      These 'globalist' values, you embrace do not work, And it will not work and cannot lead ( as it clearly hasn't) to a strong UK Chinese social identity.

      The keypoint of the boxer reference was to invite British Born Chinese together,yes, that's right, the REAL British Chinese, to organise a way to discover our identity and sense of cultural integrity that has been sapped by sellout Chinese ( like yourself) and western social engineering( which has created this diluted British Chinese 'culture' we have now) in a natural and honest way, through the creation of our own online media first and foremost for US BBCS.

      Appeasement has never won respect. And it's apologists like you, that helped created the meek kowtowist image of Chinese we now have today. It's also why, ignorant FOBs like yourselves will not understand , and neither seek to understand the real urgency of British Born Chinese identity.

      Ultimately, you are not a BBC honestly looking to define a collective identity or pride, indeed, you are a self-interested FOB. And it's your selfish backwards thinking kowtowist attitude that for all the Tang poetry you can recite has arguably destroyed the strength of Chinese pride.

      Delete
    2. on a BBC blog, I avoid publishing articles about China on a BBC blog, however, others are more 'China orientated' take a different view and want to discuss China, perhaps its because BBCs lack a real culture of their own. So what is Chinese in the 21st century to them is influenced by their own personal connection with China.

      However, to me, China's relevance is only limited to connections with the UK or British or HK, so in the case of Boxer Rebellion, the redeeming qualities are 1) it was a grassroots movement 2) anti-western 3) anti-christian, that's it.

      Grassroots movements from the 'pre-modern' Chinese historical periods were all influenced by Chinese folk or religious superstition, even the Taiping Rebellion. Its funny because you raise Lu Xun and Bo Yang, yet as a BBC I've not heard of Bo Yang, so of course these FOB intellectuals should be taken with a pinch of salt, I don't think they have much relevance to BBCs in the 21st century, I'm not even interested in Liu xiao bo.

      Our struggles are different, we as BBCs are struggling to maintain any kind of Chineseness against rampant western assimilation in UK so we have to look for 'sources' of Chinese pride (wherever they maybe, some look towards Chinas history for inspiration), whereas Chinese in China are not going to look back into history, a lot of intellectuals in China now believe that China is too slow to embrace westernisation.

      Delete
    3. I am not sure what is 'Chinese pride'. I submit that it is a false notion. One can take pride of what she does, as a result of her own choices and actions, not her ancestry to which she has no control over. It would be as absurd to speak of 'white pride'. You are sounding like the BNP, it is the same logic. Congratulations.

      Why must one seek refuge in a false group identity? This kind of 'identity' doesn't liberate, it binds.

      Now to the supposedly redeeming qualities of the Boxers You listed.

      1) Fascism and Nazism were also 'grassroot movements'. Nazism, for example, was to a degree fueled by legitimate post WWI grievances. The extreme Nationalistic ethos of Nazism (not unlike the Boxers, btw) can be seen as a distorted reaction towards the injustice that the German suffered in the hands of the victors. But no grievance can justify such monstrous movements.

      Would you make a blog about emulating the Nazi's because it is a "grassroot expression" of "German pride"???

      2) How is 'anti-Western' a merit? What is 'Western'? Are the internet and the computer you are typing on 'Western' inventions built on the knowledge of 'Western' science?

      How about this 'anti-Western', 'anti-colonial' lexicon that you use so freely on this blog? Is that not a 'Western' invention? Since you admit your ignorance about Chinese history, let me just say that Chinese traditional philosophy talks only about 'loyalty' to the Emperor and 'the country', which in context meant only the extension of the Emperor's power. Only until the late 19th and 20th centuries did Chinese intellectuals begin to talk about such concepts as 'grassroot', 'equality' and so on and they were imported from the West. Taiping's discourse against Confucianism's hierarchical system of organizing society was borrowed from a very idiosyncratic reading of the bible, Sun Yat-Sen's '3 principles of the people' was a blend of 'Western' as well as some traditional, Confucian political ideologies. The May 4th activists advocated complete Westernization.I don't need to point out Marxism is also 'Western'.

      My point is that 'Western' is not a monolithic thing, it is vibrant and diverse.Its expressions range from the Dark Age to the Enlightenment, from imperialism to anti-Colonialism, from conquest to pacifism, from slavery to liberation philosophies. Your understanding of 'Western' appears to be just as shallow as you understanding of 'China'. It is a caricature.

      3) Anti-Christianity. I would much prefer a rational approach from the likes of Richard Dawkins, than a mob who opposed Christianity simply because it encroached on its own brand of irrationality. The Boxers' opposition to Christianity is like the Taliban's.

      For insightful discussions on racism, multi-culturalism, ethnicity and colonialism in the U.K context. I suggest you read Kenan Malik. Malik is Indian and Marxist. He has an impeccable credential in anti-racist movements in the U.K. http://www.kenanmalik.com/

      Finally, to the rather offensive suggestion that the Boxers only went after 'sellouts'. I would think that many Chinese would think that BBC's are some of the biggest 'sellouts', The Chinese term for that is 'fake foreign devils'.

      Delete
    4. Firstly, look at the article at the bottom, I did not write it, HBC wrote it. I'm just offering my opinion on the subject, first time I commented.

      So, address the right person. We're not the same person, we dont share the same views. Do not lump our views together as one. Were not a political party nor a pressure group.

      This is about race and politics in UK, British Born Chinese are a suppressed ethnic minority fighting to develop and/or maintain our identities, our cultures, languages, our voice to be heard against the White majority (incidently we also fight against FOB Chinese) who are trying to white wash us and force us to assimilate. The BNP is a white majority nationalist party that wants to suppress the minorities by promoting the rights of the majority indigenous whites, we are opposites, not alike.

      Never heard of Black pride? There is nothing untoward about it. Chinese pride is a figure of speech, just like anyone who says I'm proud to be Chinese. There is a Facebook group called 'Proud to be Chinese,' it uses a panda as a logo, yes its a caricature. One of the researchers from the BEEB is also a member of that group. There is nothing untoward, there is nothing fascist about saying 'I'm proud to be Chinese,' its harmless. Why should any Chinese feel guilty about saying it?

      Now, what is 'Chinese pride,' that will take a whole new written essay, but obviously fighting western assimilation or 'white washing' has to be 'one' of the priorities for BBCs in the UK, but that doesn't mean we should oppose 'EVERYTHING' western, I'm writing in English, so don't start getting pedantic with examples of laptops.

      You could have named any of the thousands of 'grassroots' movements throughout history, they can be good, bad or neutral, instead you chose the most extreme example for no other reason other than to make another exaggerated link with Nazism, fascism etc, when there are more simple modern examples of a grass roots movements such as the Asian American activists who express pride in being Asian who have protested against negative depiction of Asians on the screen, there is an Asian American activist group from the 70s in the USA who called themselves - I Wor Kuen, influenced and named after the Boxers from the Boxer rebellion - they were the Asian version of the Black Panthers, now you wouldn't accuse them or the Black Panthers of being Nazi's or Fascists would you?

      Or HK netizen protests who have got active recently- they are proud HK'ers, a grass roots movement, again, nothing untoward. Boxers are just 'an' example of a grass roots movement.

      Now, Christianity is a topic that requires a whole new article on its own, to put it simply, Christianity is another example of western indoctrination which should be opposed.

      Kenan malik - I had a quick look, (though there maybe a few other articles) the only thing I can see that hes written thats even remotely related to BBC issues is the article entitled "multiculturalism undermines diversity." But again, that's a whole new topic on its own.

      The problems have arisen as the result of the misleading and badly organised, over simplified original article about BBC identity which IMO has little to do with The Boxer Rebellion (except the 3 things that I outlined).

      Delete
    5. And I have indicated Chinese philosophy and Taiping rebellion have little to do with BBC identity, so I dont know what point you're trying to make by repeatedly banging on about it.

      and this...

      "Finally, to the rather offensive suggestion that the Boxers only went after 'sellouts'. I would think that many Chinese would think that BBC's are some of the biggest 'sellouts', The Chinese term for that is 'fake foreign devils'."

      What is your point here? Are you saying nationalistic Chinese FOBs dont like BBCs whom they consider sell outs and fake foreign devils therefore BBCs shouldnt support China? Or what? What is your point?

      Delete
    6. Also, if you want to raise these issues on their own in depth, which they deserve, I suggest you submit an article/s for publication.

      Delete
    7. You say you're Chinese and yet you see Chinese pride as a 'false notion' and yet in the same comment elaborate that 'that 'Western' is vibrant and diverse'...?!

      As indepth a mockery of other ethnic Chinese opinions you've copied and pasted from other ethnic Chinese online opinions is, at the end of the day, youre a sadly obsessed American jew troll of ethnic Chinese online activist blogs, arguably sulking now that your fantasies of molesting a Chinese girl has taken a huge blow thanks to the recent incidents like one in Beijing:

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/rape-chinese-girl.html

      All i can say is your sinophobic obsessiveness is disturbing, and I suggest you consult a psychologist.

      Not that I could give a crap about your health but if not contained, for all your dextrous online intellectualist drivel, offline, it's not impossible to conceive your same insecure obsessive symptoms could materialise in publicly embarrassing behaviour similar to that same british rapist in the referenced article...at which point the joke will ultimately, be on you.

      Delete
    8. @happybritishchinese

      So if I am Chinese I am not allowed to have opinions differ from yours?? Why must all Chinese have the same opinions about the West and 'Chinese pride'? Who laid down the party line and elected you the enforcers? Oh, yes, maybe 'election' and having your own opnions are not a Chinese thing, Chinese are supposed to just obey the authority, 'elders' and 'community leaders', sorry for exposing my Western bias.

      I am just wondering,if you hate 'Western' so much why don't you emigrate to China instead of living your miserable life as a '假洋鬼子', or rather, a banana in the evil West?

      And now I am an "American Jew"??? Is that a racial slur? I don't expect less from the fans of the Boxer thugs,--the worst representation of the Chinese people.

      I have no idea what the sexual assault in Beijing has to do with anything. Are you insinuating all British (except for the precious BBCs of course) are rapists?? Are you saying that Chinese women have not been raped and abused by Chinese men??!! If the rapist were Chinese would that be more acceptable to you? I may also remind you that extreme women suppression and abuse-including institutional rape,-was a very much a part of Confucian culture. The Boxers, whom you adore, were misogynists guilty of mass rape (of Chinese women) as well, among other crimes.

      Your obsessiveness and inferiority complex is clearly demonstrated in the hateful garbage you posted here. It seems that you have a lot of 'enemies', not only "Whites', but also 'FOBS' and other who don't fit your narrow admission criteria for your little tribal club. I am suggesting that you should take your own advice to consult a psychologist for your paranoia and anger.

      I am not trolling, but to provide a balance, so that accidental visitors to this blog do not mistake the frothing in the mouth hysterical hatred by the likes of you as representative of all BBC.

      Delete
    9. This article is after all, my opinion of one BBC. Are you a BBC?

      There are many anonymous critics, but as usual, few genuine contributors. Maybe you can bring balance to that issue as well?

      You seem quite opinionated and so obsessed with providing balance, Why dont you sign up for a google ID and submit an article, as BBCz suggested?

      Delete
    10. Have you actually read the other articles? The blog is critical of FOBS who are racist and discriminatory to BBCs, most BBCs are not even 'from' China, their parents are from HK, there is no logic to tell BBCs to migrate to China.

      We are British citizens, we were raised in the UK, we were educated in the UK, we have the same rights equal to any white person, muslims(even Burqa wearing muslims are British too), Indians or blacks. You wouldnt tell any Black person to go back to Africa would you? Thats incredibly racist, it is equally racist to say to a BBC.

      Our anonymous friend sounds like one of those types that can be found on ChinaSmack comments sections that joins in with whites/international community to degrade China and her nation, her people and her diaspora.

      Discussed here -
      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.com/2010/08/self-hating-chinese.html

      Delete
  12. This is my last post.

    From the Chinese wikipedia's entry for the Boxers rebellion, with citations from contemporary Chinese sources

    "義和團的行為除了殺害無辜的外國人外、也直接造成許多無辜的中國人(數量遠超過洋人及教民)受害,而且針對對象從光緒帝(所謂一龍)、李鴻章、奕劻(所謂二虎)、京官大臣(所謂十三羊,或謂三百羊,宣稱京官除十八人外全應殺[8])至洋人、教民、普通百姓(所謂十毛),無法無天,除屠殺外,也姦淫據掠[7][8],其不人道處比八國聯軍更甚,不論以中外的傳統道德觀點來看、義和團的行為實屬野蠻殘暴。如據當時記載:“城中焚劫,火光蔽天,日夜不息,車夫小工,棄業從之。近邑無賴,紛趨都下,數十萬人,橫行都市。夙所不快,指為教民,全家皆盡,死者十數萬人。殺人刀矛並下,肢體分裂。被害之家,嬰兒未匝月亦斃之,慘無人理”,“京師盛時,居民殆三百萬,自拳匪暴軍之亂,劫盜乘之,所過一空,無免者。坊市蕭條,狐狸晝出,向之摩肩擊轂者,如行墟墓間矣。”[6]「義和團之殺教民毛子也,備諸酷虐,剉舂,燒磨,活埋,炮烹,支解,腰殺,殆難盡述。京西天主堂墳地,悉遭發掘,若利瑪竇,龐迪我,湯若望,南懷仁諸名公遺骨,無一免者。勝代及本朝御碑,皆為椎碎。保定屬有張登者,多教民,團匪得其婦女,則挖坑倒置,填土露其下體,以為笑樂。」[8]"

    Basically, the atrocities of the Boxers were worse than the Allies'. Among their victims, ordinary Chinese vastly outnumbered foreigners and Chinese Christians.

    The quotes go on to describe in graphic details how people are killed by the Boxers and the numbers.The Boxers went on killing sprees, people were cut to pieces, buried alive, burned to death, cooked alive, pierced by spears and even babies were not spared. In one episode, the Boxers raped a lot of women and then buried them alive upside down with no pants on and laughed at them.

    These were your nationalistic heroes.

    This also answers an earlier question by bbczeitgeist why I used the Nazis as an example for 'grassroot movements' instead of something more positive. I think my example was very fitting in this context. We are not talking about the neighbourhood self help club here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe you can share who you think BBCs should look up to? Because if you are for building bridges and globalism, and westernisation, the real Nazis are the ones doing just that.Are they your heroes?

      I am willing to stand by my own opinions and publish them.

      You however, are an anonymous coward looking only to as usual create divide and conquer.

      That you would wet your pants so obsessively over an article, and yet not offer a discernable alternative says it all. You are a white/white subcategory troll. And unless you take up the offer of writing an article, without picking holes at someone else's I cannot take your criticism seriously.

      Delete
    2. Well people worship Che Guevara, seen the T-shirts? I believe he shot a couple of his own people too.

      As to our anonymous, yes he's a troll, I just wanted to see what else he had to say. Why is he a troll?, obvious use of the term 'nazi' and in line with his other terms BNP, fascism, Taliban etc are just laughable provocative loose labels applied to anything or anyone considered 'extremist' even though the Boxers have no connection at all with Hitler's brand of National Socialism, fascism or the BNP.

      Such comments are often thrown at anyone/anything whether it be something trivial such as treading on an ant, islamic fundamentalism or ironically marxist-communism etc, yes your Marxist Kenan Malik is a nazi too then in that case.

      As stated here...

      http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/p/general-rules-for-posting-comments.html

      Fascism, nazi, jesus, hitler etc are well known internet trolling terms, often used loosely and provocatively by internet trolls, it very common to call Mao Tse Tung a nazi totalitarian murderer or indeed any Marxist-Communist for that matter inclusive of Stalin, Lenin etc, even George Bush has been called nazi. Its just for effect.

      If he mentions those terms again, I will remove his posts for trolling violation.

      Delete
  13. BTW i checked out the blog of Kenan Milik. He is loved exclusively by white intellectual community with no real solutions

    http://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/about/

    If your aspirational values are like him, then I would arguably say that for all the political incorrectness that you interpreted in my article, choosing to consistently ignore the content of the article:

    1. claim for British Born Chinese identity
    2. offering of a constructive vehicle for finding that

    Like your hero, who offers few solutions and chooses only picks to pick holes in offered solutions, without offering any viable alternative. Either aspirationally or structurally. I rest my case. You are the worst troll around. A musing passive whiteworshipping intellectualist with no real solutions except to appease white mainstream values.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And ' precious BBCs '?

      Chip on shoulder, much? LOL.

      Pathetic.

      Delete
    2. Our anonymous friends basic crux point is...'Boxers caused fatalities - therefore are nazis, if you have any sympathy for them you're nazi too.' Thats all he wanted to say really, but he was long-winded about it.

      Even if you apply such basic negative fatality logic to Chairman Mao, even those neutral to Mao are able to objectively recognise he had some positive achievements, as there were positive achievements for the Boxers.

      Delete