Wednesday, 26 September 2012

Chinese Plastic Surgery


Being born in Britain, our parents wanted the best start in life for us. Indeed, many British Born Chinese excel beyond their parents’ expectations. Whilst British Born Chinese females get on with life, few feel a need to alter their looks to fit in with the western ideal of beauty. I know no-one that feels compelled to try out the outlets in South Korea or Hong Kong that perform the “double eye-lid” surgery, none that want to buy skin whitening cream, nor spend precious earned cash on calf reduction.

Opening a Chinese gossip magazine or seeing the hordes of fresh faced East Asian female students entering the UK, it’s apparent that many East Asians take their appearance very seriously, their skin is often lightened, their eyes widened, their eyelashes extended and their breasts don’t sit naturally on a slight frame - in many ways they look like a celebration of the western identikit.

In Britain, whilst many of our role models are white, British Born Chinese women do not feel a need to go under the knife to look white. FOBs on the other hand have been marketed to look up to white culture, its not uncommon for East Asian female stars to get by on their looks alone. The way the media markets beauty to East Asian women seems to be about the superficial things in life, especially in Hong Kong and China, this transforms into a copied culture often seen on the internet.

Statistics from The Asian Plastic Surgery Guide showed that in 2009, an estimated 74 out of 10,000 people from South Korea had gone under the knife. Typical Korean plastic surgery procedures include the classic double eyelid surgery (blepharoplasty) and jaw re-alignment surgery. Other popular procedures include shaving cheek-bones to create a more smoother silhouette and calf reduction. Surprisingly, breast enlargement was not among the top procedures. Many believe a core is made up of Chinese nationals favouring top rated surgeons in Korea. 


The running theme is altering our natural Asian looks and replacing them with western ideals of beauty. Magazines are filled with western products designed mainly for the western market, but are pushed in magazines for Oriental women and modelled by Caucasian or Asian white mixed Eurasian models. This is the norm.


I believe that for many East Asian women, the competitive nature that has been well documented with the pushy Tiger mother/father upbringing has led to many seeking much more than academic achievement. Those lacking in that department, should at the very least have a presentable and enviable physique. Insecurity occurs when there is no real pride in our natural form. Our parents are ashamed, so we might as well be too. If parents spend more time criticising instead of encouraging us, how can we feel comfortable in our own skin?

As a British Born Chinese female, criticising and belittling was part of my upbringing. Being tall and pale was a measure of success. This can often lead to rebellion, or caving in to seek what our parents expect of us. Further from that, imagine being self-conscious and then being fed the idea that western beauty is the pinnacle of beauty. Yet, despite that, on closer scrutiny, there is a silver lining, our parents have inadvertently created a more robust British Born Chinese ready to rebel against all this superficial nonsense.

Here in Britain, you are living at close quarters, seeing things with warts and all, it soon hits you, aspiring to look like a white person is delusional. Perhaps in China, society is more competitive, looking like a white person may get you a better job, but here in Britain, you can’t fool the people here. Looks are not the answer, aspiring to look white will not earn you respect.

(By Guest Blogger- BBCNewAgenda is a British Born Chinese Female living in the UK)

108 comments:

  1. Are they actually trying to look white though?

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    1. To me, the vivi magazine cover of the 6 brunette girls with lightened skin, two of them look european, and one slightly arabic. Vivi is a japanese fashion magazine also published in East Asian countries, Korea, Japan,Taiwan,Hong Kong, Ive just googled.

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    2. Anonymous 27/09/12:00:58, I would say yes. I was inspired to start this discussion whilst two years ago, my mum wanted her eyebrows tattooed. Like a lot of FOBs, she was not keen to go to any old place and only wanted to go to places that dealt exclusively for Chinese or East Asians. She wanted me to research surgery in Hong Kong and the far East.

      It was through this, I discovered a world of surgery that on first inspection seemed like a fringe thing, but delving deeper, I was shocked to find Korean (loads on YouTube) girls, many very young, taking us on a journey of what they have done, from skin lightening to eyebrow tinting. That got me researching and was surprised to find that Koreans were top of the table in Surgery worldwide.

      Many went to extreme lengths to change their face shapes to a western look. Some held up pictures of caucasions. To my mind, even without saying it, they were all aspiring to a caucasion profile, and basically ridding their natural features.

      My mum didn't go through with it. But she did go all the way to Hong Kong to find out more herself. In the end she chickened out. SF.

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    3. They tend to look more like Kazakhs central Asians.

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    4. Breast augmentation is performed to balance a difference in breast size, improve body contour or as a post-surgery reconstructive technique. Plastic Surgeon in Indore

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  2. In the middle example, theres definately a difference,- light skin, pointed nose, lightened skin, rather than the natural look, more defined cheekbones, whether natural or not, 'futuristic'

    The white-influenced aspiration is subtle but its there. Its surprised BBC females havent taken cosmetic surgery long ago with all the wannabe white FOBS and white models in british advertising.

    And maybe some of them choose to marry white instead so that their mixed race children can get the natural white look without having to pay for it?

    Out and about Ive noticed a few female beauty adverts with the 'asian look' short black hair, as if its starting to be cool to look 'asian' for females along with the all year round ugly fake orange tan that i see white women using these days.

    Maybe its just a minor trend. Its definately outshadowed by the endless white model perfume role models like keira knightly on the bus shelters as the article states.

    Anything to show features of Asian beauty without using ethnic East asian models I guess? Why not be blatant about the extinction agenda as with everything else and employ eurasians exclusively in the advertising, ha.

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    1. Happybritishchinese, I will research Vivi magazine later and try to give you more examples. I agree with your views there.

      I was surprised recently when I saw a huge Boots truck pull out with a giant poster of a Chinese looking (maybe BBC)female model modelling glasses. It really is the first time I've seen it done this way.

      She had a mischevious look behind a set of horned rimmed designer looking specs. It was quite a nice photo and she looked quite natural. Not like the FOB snaps I'm used to seeing in Chinese magazine shops. I wonder whether you have seen this? SF.

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  3. Jacky chan had double eye surgery its nothing new, watch the eagles' shadow 70s there are rife rumours about other east asian celebs. Agreed this western model of female beauty has too much ideological power.

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    1. Flip Flops, it has been well documented, and some argue that it really was an over-reaction because he didn't really need to do that because he was on the rise. But it sends out this obvious message that to be 'accepted' into the mainstream and gather better success in places like Hong Kong, that kind of surgery was considered normal and right.

      What I find strange is even I know no BBCs wanting to alter themselves, there is a kind of acceptance of these procedures like it's a small symptom we have to deal with. SF.

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  4. not a BBC but the transformation of this woman is caricaturish

    http://xiaxue.blogspot.com/

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    1. Oh please Kingston Tiger, after skimming a few bits, I'm blinded by snowy pink and day-glo looking eyes. She literally is an alien in my eyes. Is it cool to play ditzy as well as white?? SF.

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    2. shes a sad case, even uses blue circle lens to create blue eyes and has blonde hair. HBC is right, these types of women are project their desires to be eurasian/white either through their offspring. He is a pregnant with a Eurasian baby, the father of her baby is a white man.

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  5. Great article.


    I have been to China recently. More specifically Shanghai, that bastion of Chinese success gone wrong... when we should be seeing Chinese people attaining things of their own ability, or celebrating modern Chinese culture or pride in one's people, what I saw was essentially every would-be affluent Chinese trying to emulate the white look, the white culture, white "behaviour" wholesale. Whilst all the time with an air of "and that's why China is great". It's so pathetic, and rather shameful to see in action. Sadder still they don't even realise it.


    Another problem is that Chinese media, fashion and celeb media in particular, focuses on white celebs and white looks. Take Vogue. In India there is a seperate edition, catered specifically for Indians - Indian culture, Indian beauty. Vogue China consists of the worldwide (American) edition of Vogue, translated into Mandarin, with some few select Chinese women and celebs being featured. Multiply that across all Chinese magazines, all Chinese media, adverts, billboards etc... and you have an idea of how bad the whitewashing has become.

    Further still are the businesses promoting this behaviour. One of the largest Chinese clothes retailer is Bosideng. This is their site

    http://www.bosideng.cn/

    Note, that link is for CHINESE consumers in China. Now have a browse of UK retailers' websites here in Britain..... and then those same UK retailers for China

    http://www.marks-and-spencer.com.cn/cn

    Notice it? Obviously, western brands will have predominately western models... it's common sense, we all have ethnocentrism, especially when it comes to marketing - we associate closest with those who look like us. However, they're even enforcing western models when selling to a Chinese audience....and tellingly, Chinese people are BUYING into that... much like East asian males are buying iinto Apple products despite having seen the promotional material that is basically laughing in their face
    http://images.apple.com/ipod-touch/features/images/display_hero.jpg

    That is a problem in itself, another example being Chinese businesses employing any white person - as long as they're white - to be the "face" of PR. Seriously, they could be illiterate, but the vast majority of Chinese believe that having a white face will reap benefits to their company. Make them more accepted. Whereas a white business has (just like M+S's case) shown no requirement to do the same with Chinese models on their Chinese website.

    And to top things off, Bosideng wants to make a mark in the UK. Will they do what M+S have done, present Chinese faces to a white audience, much like they did with white faces to a Chinese audience?

    http://www.bosidenglondon.com/

    Nope, white people will refuse that from the off. Even with all white models on their portfolio, it's unlikely Bosideng or any other Chinese brand will have the same mark as white brands do in China.


    And it all boils down to this. Overwhelmingly, most Chinese have an inferiority complex about themselves. Don't get me wrong, we have pride - the recent anti Japan, anti America etc. protests have shown that - but only up to a point, and that point is when whites come along. Obviously they've misunderstood what pride means, when it should be absolute, not conditional, and certainly not based on one's perceived inferiority to another race.


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    1. If anyone saw the 2nd episode of Four Wheels on China (might still be on BBC iplayer), the closing statement Anita made said it all... "Capitalism, rampant consumerism, incredible wealth... and what does everyone here want? Western goods."

      Throughout history, we have seen whites enslave blacks, invade and colonise the Middle East and India, try to control the Far East....all fought back, most are now prideful of one's individual culture and race. What the whites should have done is flood the local people with white ideals, white models, white culture....looking at China now, they would have succeeded. The way things are going, 200 years from now, the ethnic Chinese will have been assimilated into the white culture, much like the descendants of black slaves have now. (But even that group has their own distinct culture, 200 years on.) The key difference? We WANTED it to happen to us.




      Lastly, I was a bit surprised by this matter of fact statement

      "As a British Born Chinese female, criticising and belittling was part of my upbringing. "

      This isn't an exclusively BBC characteristic - I'm guessing you got unlucky with your parents. Mine were supportive, critical when I did wrong - but never outside that. I was NEVER belittled, even when I was being an arsehole. So it's a bit shocking to hear you say that in a taken for granted manner.

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    2. Finally to add, I mentioned India in both of my last posts. There's a reason for that - India and the Indians are also the next "rising superpower", but you will have noticed they are doing so at a much slower pace than China. Why? It's not because they want to be behind... but because they are taking their time. And as the future unfolds, this is quite obviously the right path to take - I frequently hear stories about the Indian government preventing white businesses, white media,white universities trying to setup shop there... sure it stifles their economy a lot, but also means that what is of the Indian economy is actually uniquely Indian. Can the same be said for the Chinese economy, where it consists of making western dicatated goods, emulating western brands etc.?

      Last week there were massive strikes there on proposed reforms that would have allowed white brands to flood India, pushing out local supermarkets much like is accepted in China (Walmart, McDonalds, KFC, Tesco etc....go to any Chinese high street and it's pretty much what you will see in any identikit high street).

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19658146

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19658984

      Note it hasn't happened yet... no Walmart in India yet. McDonalds is a niche failure there also. Meanwhile in China

      http://www.sptimes.com/2002/07/14/photos/china-walmart.jpg

      http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01342/tesconew_1342275c.jpg

      http://www.hawkblocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Hawkblocker-Chinese-McDonalds.jpg


      They don't look like they're protesting.


      This is reflected somewhat in the Indian disapora in white countries i.e. US, UK Europe compared to the Chinese diaspora... whilst we're both high attainers, just look at the way we go about it - the Indians retain their strong sense of racial identity and community. The Chinese - go white at the first opportunity. This is also reflected in marriage stats i.e. south asian women are the LEAST likely to intermarry, east asian women most likely.

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    3. The problem is (I know some hate hearing me say this), China had not been officially colonised, but doing business with the white men for centuries. Never under-estimate that. It's crept into our culture over time. West is best, but the Chinese can feel pride in a short-sighted sort of way. They are proud of their achievments and progression, but it's just a catch-up job of capitalism. It's not preserving culture and identity.

      The issue is, many have chosen the bits about Chinese culture that suits the western world. The idea of new is good has meant, many embracing western products because they are new. Chinese culture is considered old rather than ancient in a nice way. Because it's the past, it's old, the Chinese will say it's best to invest in new-build properties, new music, new influences from outside the country.

      In other words, the Chinese are happy to embrace and take on new things. Over time, anything that is the past is just that, the past. Not to be re-looked at or celebrated. This kind of culture has damaged China's pride to some extent.

      India has resisted and fought back, got what they wanted. Religion still central and clearly not ashamed of their heritage. The families that enter Britain still wear their traditional clothing, keep their Indian names even after three generations. Sadly, the Chinese can't even match three from that list. SF.

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    4. About the belittling comment. It was my upbringing, and I'm not saying all Chinese parents are like that, but I was led to believe they are though.

      But be sure that on the exterior, my parents are very humble and full of humility, but once behind closed doors, they are cracking whip about getting competitive and making sure we match the best if not better. Being criticised was part of my upbringing. It's always nagging about why we are not like so and so's children, and how so and so's skin is so pale and blemish-free.

      Don't get me wrong, there was encouragement too, but balanced with shame and belittling probably hoping to bait us into working harder. SF.

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    5. I had that "be the best" attitude to. I don't think that's a problem in itself, since looking back, if I did settle for mediocrity I would have had shit grades, gone to a shit uni etc etc. It all snowballs, and a bit of "forcing" to achieve when young just so you get the grades for a better next step in life, isn't bad.

      It's just the way that some Chinese parents go about it, some can be... blunt... about how they approach it, seeing kids as objectives rather than human.

      The "not like so and so because their skin is pale and blemish free" is such a puzzling concept to me though. I had zits as a teen and uneven skin into adulthood (still get it depending on the weather!), but I was never scorned by my parents for it! They loved me for who I am. Indeed, I have talked about this whole whitewashing that is going through modern Chinese culture and attitudes with my mum, and she doesn't like it anymore than we do here.

      So giving shame and taking digs on your appearance... which is stupid considering they are based on your parents... is weird.

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    6. You're fucking joking, Indians want to be anything BUT Indian, shit they are evn trying to be Chinese now, witness chia bobo et al.

      You've never seen a Chinese wnating to be Indian have you ? LOL

      Ming

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    7. Anonymous 28/09/12:09:12, wierd might be a polite word, but I put it down to ignorance. My parents seem to think that skin tone and blemishes are important and actually changable so long as we eat the correct portions and types of foods. They don't believe it's hereditary. Just like the many village people who over-feed their children just to make sure they get strong and survive the cold.

      It's the bluntness that makes me stronger though. I can laugh at this, and hope that other BBCs who have similar style of upbringing can gain humour too. But what I can't get away from is the fact that big and tall is good, and we were always compared with the white people who tended to be taller and thicker set. This looking up to can filter down to the next generation. SF.

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    8. Ming, regarding Indians wanting to be/not be Indians might be a minority. But the fact remains, the culture, religion and naming of their children has remained firmly Indian.

      There's proud and then there's proud laced with shame which the Indians don't tend to have. The Chinese seem to question their social standing against other nations, whereas the Indians can draw from Ghandi and stick two fingers up at Britain when they see fit.

      The Chinese tend to tread around eggshells when they discuss the west or they go over-the-top with nationalistic views when cornered about their hypocrisies about worshipping the consumerist culture. SF.

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    9. @Anonymous27 September 2012 19:46

      That M and S and Bosideng website with white models is sickening. Im aware for Shanghainese that mixing with whites is elevated to an intrinsic part of Shanghai culture what with its history of occupation but you wouldve thought some progression wouldve been made since then.

      To add to your comment however, to be given a chance to express our Chinese pride China needs to improve its media soft power. Right now being attacked from all sides, its also up to western born Chinese to play our part too.

      While I agree with SF above who says China just wants new to escape the old, I strongly believe if Chinese let go of chasing our consumerist fantasies for one second and started to look within for our own sense of pride, things can change.

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    10. SF,

      Bullshit. Gandhi was a loser, India is a failure and Indians hate themselves, full stop.

      You soumd like a fcking ah cha pretending to be chinese giving an ' objective ' view. How Indian.

      Ming

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    11. Ming, Indians don't hate themselves, they proudly celebrate their religion. Only some southern regions practice Christianity, and guess what, the level of violence awarded to those that practice Christianity is nothing like the worshipping going on in China.

      No, I'm talking a different worship. So sucked in, many resort to a congregation in private households. Need I say more on Korea, the most growing Christian worshipping east Asian nation going. The link between religion and cosmetic surgery should not be ignored. Korea and China aspire to the west and all its looks.

      You don't need to be an AhCha to realise the Indians are more resistant to change. Young women still wear Saris. SF.

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    12. You must be blind, have half a brain of as I say an AhCha incognito.

      Walk down any street in Uk where there are AhCha and hear their fake Uk accents. See them on TV proudly prclaiming their Bri....ishness, any excuse but to call them selves for what they .... Indians, AhChas and kunduts.

      Repeat all over the owrld, whether USA,UK,Ca, HK,Malaysia.

      resilience my ass, most Indians can't wait to sell out their own kind given half a chance to be something else. next to the word racial sell out there should be a picture of an ugly AhCha or a patent bullshitter like you.

      Ming

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  6. one shouldn't just use Vogue as the main scource of beauty its snobby class remit is creatively very limited, but also consider more leftfield media, i don't consume these mags/media anymore but anti-fashion, creatives, adbusters, that sort of thing that are more in tune with authentic or "alternative" styling, where a board nose like gymnast Gabby Douglas can be considered beautiful and it is.
    Pleased that none of BBCs i know have considered going under the knife, but i know a few with tattoos and body piercings which would be seen as a bit triady or fishball mui by conservative HKers.
    I think the skill is in the makeup, some bbcs apply too much or too less line shadow, eyelining, lashes to make their eyes appear more larger, and brighter etc. but when you get it right subtly, its looks stunning, no need for blepharoplasty.

    There was a ch5 prog about flat chested women, one of which was a fob single lady who thought her pulling chances (white men) and confidence would be improved with bigger breasts and another aussie chinese was trying alternative remedies like a suction machine to enlarge her assets. Leave it alone you stupid women you are beautiful as you are, the implants make you look fake, and ironically less attractive and more of an empty headed individual. Alas i speaking as a BBC, rather than a white guy who maybe prefers large breasts and "western" eyes. That's too shallow but but chinese women buy it.

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    1. They are beautiful but they don't know it because, from birth, they have been indoctrinated into a society where looking, being white "just is". In everything. And where minorities are given token appearances to fill the numbers or in specific "ethnic" programmes. No wonder they feel ridicule in their race. Because they haven't been exposed to media that suits and caters Chinese women and men, everything they see, read or hear is about the white race being "normal".

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    2. Toothpick, the words shallow cropped up a few times a couple years back when I was talking to another BBC about visits to Hong Kong. The shallowness was all about putting all your energies on your exteriors.

      Drawing from observations around me, those that put so much attention on personal image and resort to buying the whole of Harvey Nicholls (a Chinese involved) tend to be deeply unsure about themselves or even insecure.

      In order to hide the low self-belief, many tend to pile on the make-up and designer gear to prove others wrong. Many black people fall into that trap. They too believe they gain more street cred if they have the latest designer items. The Chinese are quickly following suit, and cosmetic surgery is just another extention of that. SF.

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    3. What gets me noticed, ain't those who pile on the make-up or obsessed with brand image management as a front, but actually those who admit they are a bit shy or i am not that loud or admit their insecurity etc (because we all are), that honesty works for me all the time,and cuts through the pretense than any designer jacket.

      Good on SF for your penetrating BBCs views.

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    4. I agree with the honesty about admiting bit shy or not that loud. It sells clothes and sells people too. What narks me off on the other hand are the clowns who cannot respect shy or dont try to understand it. What narks me off even more than that are white people who do the false modesty act. Ive noticed that a lot with the royalty in the news, the whole disabled olympics thing, david cameron saying that the uk is dithering when those cunts put us in this shit. This shit-fake modesty. oh god im so humble yet im really cool and self interested. xfactor, etc, subtle but its there. actually stroll around london and you will see it everywhere. really makes me sick to my stomach.actually think i need a lie down.

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  7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. Haha first article about being anti-plastic surgery and we get another spammer promoting plastic surgery. Seriously the blog should start charging for advertising what do you think BBCz?

      Maybe can have one of those 'meet Chinese girls' banners and start reeling in the mullah from the trolling white males that visit

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  8. Heres a video on Chinese graduates getting surgery to improve job prospects. Not sure how credible it is considering its from a mainstream white american tabloid

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/chinese-job-seekers-plastic-surgery_n_1789825.html

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    1. And heres a 28yr old Chinese male getting surgery for a 'more prosperous nose'

      http://www.bloomberg.com/video/70237788-chinese-go-under-knife-seeking-a-prosperous-nose.html

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  9. Ok something even more specific to your article SF, worth reading:


    http://forum.purseblog.com/plastic-surgery-and-cosmetic-procedures/asian-eyelid-surgery-152400-54.html

    JLy8 - 8th poster down : BBC female wants to go to korea for eyelid surgery

    'Hi everyone,

    I'm new to this and its my very first forum. I'm a British-born Chinese, who desperately wants to get eyelid surgery to enhance my eyes. I love experimenting with make-up, but its very limiting when I have mono-lids.

    I plan to go to South Korea for surgery. But need to research which clinic would be best for me. I'm 23years old and have a job in the city. Therefore I would like a surgical procedure that would be permanent with a quick recovery period - as I only get 2weeks off from work.

    1. Does anyone have any suggestions in which procedure I should do?
    2. Which clinic is best?

    I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

    Many thanks in advance

    Jen'

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    1. That forum is shocking. People that age should not be spending time and money, least of all altering their very being, if our race was not seen as inferior, both within ourselves (i.e. pride in our appearance, and thus racial features) and from others (i.e. how white beauty has taken over as the ideal form of beauty).

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    2. Happybritishchinese, it was these types of comments I kept seeing when I initially started researching for my mum's eyebrow tattoo job. I was astounded by how young they all were. There are even You tube videos showing them having procedures done. Many do not question the 'whys' but blindly wanting to have it done because so many others are too.

      I know that black people also have similar situations where noses that are broad are not desirable, but I have never heard of black people paying to have their lips thinned down. But eyelid surgery or nose narrowing are the equivalents, so there is this accepted rejection of our natural features, and very few even challenge them. SF.

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    3. Is Jen earning so much money in the city that she thinks she should splash out the cash on her face, or do you think shes competing with an Asian colleague to look better than her, or shes competiting with her Asian female colleague for the affections of her white boss? I dont believe a BBC female would have a eye lid surgery to compete with a white female colleague, do you?

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    4. I personally don't think so either. However, on forums like this, a BBC might play the dumb clueless east Asian to see what response they get or do so to test the waters on what's available.

      It is very possible that she just wants to fit in and feel more comfortable around her western friends. It's less likely to do with competition in a professional sense, and even less so to impress her boss.

      Western men tend to be seduced by the whole oriental thing, and seeing a westernised looking Chinese woman is lost on them. They are more or less buying into the whole experience of something different. Double-eye lid surgery will be a poor bet if that was her motivation. SF.

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  10. Following on from my posts about how many of our race (and east asians in general) have an inferiority complex, especially when compared to whites, this affects EVERYTHING - including social situations and how others treat us. Example - it i the start of another university year, and new people from all over the world get together. Just this week I have seen several cases of black and asian men - just got here - can't speak that well - and already have white girls in their "group". Same with oriental women and white men and women. Oriental men however, are either with other oriental women or with other oriental men. There is no cross relations.

    I have also noticed (and this is from general observation, including with myself), something which is more common as we have a new influx of young students, is that white men and women alike look at us - oriental men that is - with disdain. It is subtle, but their body language and facial expression compared to when looking at other races says everything. We are merely tolerated, and barely so. Blacks and asians are seen differently - looks of acceptance.

    This would be fair if we had the equivalent in oriental countries i.e. white foreigners being given looks of hostility by oriental women (hostility by men is a given, or at least it should be re: ethnocentrism) - but it says it all if the local women in the East are accepting whilst over here (and other non white, non oriental parts of the world) they are not.

    It shows that our women do not take pride in their appearance, their racial features, and thus that natural resistance against foreigners (where a woman of race A is more hostile to a man of race B than one of her own race) is never there because they see such foreign men, and WANT them to mix into the population.

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    1. Anonymous 28/09/12:17:28, what you observe might be a mixture of media manipulation. As mentioned before on this blog, East Asian men represented in the west is very minimal, and if they are represented, they are nerds or oddballs. Whereas white men and women are marketed very positively around the world and the representation is of the western sophistication, hence the Chinese falling at their feet at every opportunity.

      Another angle might be the hostilities caused by the negative press about China and its people. Women are always regarded the fairer sex whereas men can be looked at with suspicion. In other words, they see something sinister like oriental men are not to be trusted thanks to the many characters from Hollywood to Britsh dramas. SF.

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    2. no chilli sauce thank u29 September 2012 at 21:10

      Anonymous28 September 2012 17:28
      I dunno what uni you're at but i guess it ain't top ten london. Chinese also split with chinese, the rich upper class students buy property as digs, have their closed clique. Can be a awkward period its bit like do i belong to the cool group or losers. Or the lone ranger MingZhou below LOL

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    3. come to HK and see how your wonderfeul white men fare.

      You're just attacking Chinese cause you have been rejected by your own.

      MIng

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    4. @ming
      Think u attended Carrie Waley's classes one too many.

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    5. No Chilli Sauce thank u, so you notice the segregation within the Chinese students. Is it mainlander Vs Hong Kongers? Or is it Malaysians vs Taiwanese?

      I notice, the Malaysian females tend to be less influenced by the whole western craving culture, example: Wearing designers from Europe, buying French hand-bags, and spending more time fighting others to get to the front of Selfridges' annual Sale queue than being at Uni.

      I wonder whether it has anything to do with being exposed to western brands and culture more, so therefore no longer seeing it through advertisers' lens. SF.

      Delete
    6. @Anonymous28 September 2012 22:53

      It's absolute ridiculous. I'm not a student, but walk past the campus there to work everyday... there are various hipsters and "cool" people handing out flyers for clubs, bars, openings...EVERY time a Chinese MALE walks past their hands instinctively retract... their brain is thinking "NOPE, don't want THEM".... of course you have hordes of folk from all over the world walking past, it's quite amazing to see this distinct racism playing out. Single white man, here's a flyer... white girl, flyer.... asian man and woman together... flyer..... black guy with white girl... flyers.....Chinese man on his own - NO.... Chinese man in a group of chinese- - NO.... group of blacks - flyers.

      And the sad thing is, these Chinese students pay the most as well in fees - they SHOULD be invited to all the best stuff, they are paying more for less right now.

      Delete
    7. Anonymous30 September 2012 21:48

      If you look at their culture, it is heavily dominated by a Muslim fundamentalist party who are intent on enforcing Malaysian culture and values... note how the past few decades they have enforced Chinese and Indian businesses (who are the backbone of the country's economy compared to the ethnic Malays) to take more Malays than their own... or forcing Chinese and Indians to take up Malay surnames.

      Delete
    8. Anonymous 01/10/12:13:53, are you saying that Chinese Malaysians have been influenced by the main party in charge of Malaysia, hence the comment I made about Chinese Malaysians being more reserved and less interested in the more superficial side of life?

      The only thing I know about Malaysia is the fact that the government has for the last decade gone through a series of positive discrimmination programmes towards the Malays, deliberately tageting the Chinese and Indians, making sure both groups have less control on the business side of the country.

      I'm hearing that the fundamentalists are so tough that newer generation of Muslim women wear gloves all day even in sweltering weather. Obviously, this is alien to me being brought up here in Britain, but for a Chinese growing up in Malaysia, it must surely affect them. SF.

      Delete
    9. Re:flyers What is the logic behind wanting 'East Asian same race couples' but not single Asian males?

      Delete
    10. By 'Asian man and woman together' Anonymous 1 October 2012 13:51 maybe referring to Indian Pakistani etc

      Delete
    11. Anonymous30 = talking bullshit :

      ' forcing Chinese and Indians to take up Malay surnames '

      Innteresting how he quickly groups Chinese and AhChas together, wonder if he is a kundut himself . LOL

      Mimg ming

      Delete
  11. Sorry can't agree here, don't believe the problem is that bad.

    1) I don't believe most Chinese women get surgery to look Western.

    2) The end product looks in most cases even MORE East Asian than the original.

    3) Many Chinese are very fair skin in many cases fairer than a lot of so called whites !

    I know this to be a fact cause I am one of them and I certainly don't use skin ' whitener' and generally don't give a shit about it.

    MingZhou ( Back in uk )

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you MingZhou for your honest and thoughtful insight into the world of cosmetic surgery.

    I wonder what your thoughts are on the latest winner of Miss Hong Kong 2012. Apparently, she's been accused of having her face narrowed and having surgery on her eyelids. Of course, these allegations are rife for any Miss something competition.

    You might not be using the skin whiteners, but they are flying off the shelves in Watson's Chemists in Hong Kong. East Asians are filling the pockets of L'Oreal from what I can see. SF.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Beaty queens, actresses, models all go for surgery - so what, where does it does it say they look more
      'western' as a result ?

      Does Korean star Lee DaHae look European ? Does Miss HK look European (as a matter of fact I think she looks quite ugly) ?

      Me thinks some uglier Chinese women are jealous of what is happening and so use this blog to attack their own kind thereby denegrating ALL of us in the process.

      Selfish and cowardly.

      Well, whitening products may be popular with women but I know non of my circle of male friends even talk about this stupid subject.

      Ming.

      Delete
    2. Ming, western women who have plastic surgery enhance things that are regarded as youthful and symetrical. Enhance is not the same as creating an entirely different look.

      Lifting of excess eyelids, pulling loose jowls to create a more firmer tone. Breast enlargment to mimic Jessica Rabbit, liposuction to mimic successful models and Hollywood stars. The role models are all caucasians.

      East Asian women have calf reduction surgery because East Asians tend to have thicker calves than that of Caucasians. Eye lid surgery to create a more western looking lid. Nose narrowing to look more western since many East Asians tend to naturally have broader noses. Skin lightened because we tend to have more olive complexions naturally. Strange contraptions that make eyelashes stand up unnaturally since eyelashes are not naturally curly or long on East Asians because our lids tend to cover our eyes more, so the lashes through evolution does not require lengthy lashes to protect our eyes. Did you like my last explanation?

      Whitening products are not stupid subjects, believe me, don't say that in front of L'Oreal executives. They should know, they make millions from it in the far east.

      Rather than jealous of what's happening around me, I'm more sad to be honest. The copying culture as shown extends to our own natural self. SF.

      Delete
    3. Bullshit, all your comments are unsubstantiated - who says all the 'features' you described are exclussive to Euros ? You mean you wish they were, so as to give you an excuse to attack better looking Chinese girls ?

      'natural olive ' ? what a load of crap.

      Bollocks to that I say - you must be just another jealous ug.


      MIng

      Delete
    4. Ming, of course they're unsubstantiated. These are my personally views, just as I welcome/challenge your views. You say bullshit, I say fair enough.

      What's a jealous ug? All this talk of campus and uni, I'm not all that youthful, so can only try to understand where you are coming from. Seems you view things as black and white. SF.

      Delete
    5. OK, at least you admit these are your own subjective views.

      And my view is that Chinese beauty standards are quite different to that of Europeans other wise they would end up looking all the same - which they do not.

      Ming.

      Delete
    6. Ming, may I ask what are the beauty standards for Chinese women? You say they are different to that of Europeans.

      Surely, you can't argue the fact that Koreans being the most altered country in the world warrants a question mark about east Asian beauty and why the need to go under the knife. Ok, it's not specifically a BBC problem, but I do see it possibly affecting the newly arriving FOB students that may influence or shall I say raise the bar on what's considered beautiful or desirable. SF.

      Delete
    7. SF,

      If you don't know what beauty standards for Chinese women then how can you say they are the same to that of Europeans ?

      You've never lived in the FE nor do you speak CHinese ?

      So what the fuck do you know? How do you know the FOBS are copying the Westerners ?

      I'm at a top 20 uni now and there are loads of FOB girls around and I see very few hanging out with Europeans. They are not stupid you know, selfish and vain maybe but not stupid.

      They've all the seen the Wonder girls, TVB and so on and they know it's the ultra FE look that's in, not this stupid fake bullshit abouut wanting to be like Whites.

      No way. You are wrong

      Ming ming ming !

      Delete
    8. Ming, I didn't accuse these FOB women or students as stupid. It's true, I have never lived in the far east to be able to form such strong opinions, but as stated previously, they are my own opinions gathered over years. The FOB students I have come across are very intelligent, but I notice they take great interest in getting their hands on the latest French designer hand bags.

      I was asking you what you think the East asian ideal beauty was, since you spent a huge part of your time complaining about my views and my opinions. I gave my opinions in the original article, but you have not given me your opinion.

      Finally, what do you mean I can't speak Chinese. I worked out your 'Ahchar' comment from another topic. Even if I'm not totally fluent in Chinese, why would that make me less of someone able to discuss East Asian cosmetic surgery? SF.

      Delete
    9. Ok, if you really want to be that pedantic; my standard of female chinese beuaty is best summed up by example:

      Chen yen mei, Chow hoi mei, chueng hor yi, Yeung yi, michelle yeh etc etc.

      If you can't get this through your thick skull then I cannot help you anymore.

      The question reveals more of your insincere BS.


      Ming

      Delete
    10. Thank for that list. I shall try to decipher those names throught the internet. I hope that Michelle Yeh is not Michelle Yeoh. Chow Hoi Mei? Yes, that's a throwback, but I agree, classic. SF.

      Delete
  13. Double eyelids, pale white skin, narrow tall nose bridge, tallness etc are not uniquely European Caucasian features. Many Chinese/East Asians also have them naturally. The fact that some Chinese want these features is not to look White- those features have been preferable in ancient China, and other cultures long before Western influences. The above features, when at right proportion are just aesthetically viewed to be more attractive. By the way, except being quite tall, I don't possess these features, but I am not unattractive and certainly better looking than many white men.

    I am tired of hearing 'wanting to look white etc' comment, like all White people are beautiful , and they uniquely possess them. These stupid and scientifically inconsistently statements simply raise the ego of most White people who saw those comments as valid. In reality with the exception of hair and eyes colour, we can argue East Asian people are more diverse in physical appearance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL

      These comments are done deliberately to promote the revenge agenda of the rejects of our people (ie. ugly women).

      I see a few of them here on campus and beware they are selfish vindictive cowards - lash out at anyone just release their petty frustrations.

      Ming

      Delete
    2. Ming, no revenge agenda. Just delving into statistics and trying to work out why Korea has the highest figures for plastic surgery, that's all.

      It's correct that some just simply want to enhance their appearance for job prospects etc. But, there are others that may not be aware of the media indoctrination. Why must I be an ugly woman to post what I post? Is it so 'ugly' just to discuss what our sisters are doing or not doing?

      You are right, I do have petty frustrations. Why some of us can't admit we are not always confident, preferring to mask it with surgery or projecting an over-the-top look just to forget about who we are and our ethnicity. Yes, it's heavy stuff, and I'm sure you are rolling about laughing now....SF.

      Delete
    3. 'no revenge agenda' ??

      and then this :

      'projecting an over-the-top look just to forget about who we are and our ethnicity'

      yeah right, more bullshit


      Ming

      Delete
    4. Ming, is it bullshit because you disagree with that comment about masking/forgeting who we are and our ethnicity? If that's the case, I would like to see another response other than revenge agenda.

      Or is it that simple. I'm very frustrated and jealous of my sisters who take great care in themselves.

      If you've already read my article, you will see that us BBCs are not quite affected by cosmetic surgery despite being subjected to a media that is white-centred. We tend to rely less on excessive grooming and a lust for designer brands. Are you suggesting, I'm jealous of those who have the guts to go under knife because I too secretly want of do that too? SF.

      Delete
    5. What do you know abou tbeauty standards in the FE ? you lived all your life here.

      My view is that Chinese beauty standards are quite different to that of Europeans other wise they would end up looking all the same - which they do not.

      What part of that response don't you get ?

      Ming

      Delete
    6. Ming, I got it, but you didn't elaborate on the difference in beauty standards. Since this topic is about beauty and using surgery to promote beauty, it would be nice to hear what they are. SF.

      Delete
    7. What a stupid statement. It wasn't me who proclaimed to be a beauty expert, ask the article writer, I simply know that what I see around me in HK/ Malaysia etc does not reflect her bogus version of reality.

      Ah, I guess you are going to feign ingnorance again aren't you, so transaparent, so bogus.

      Shoot yourself.

      Ming

      Delete
    8. Ming, since I am the article writer and have made my comments, I will assume you wholeheartedly diagree with my version of beauty. Since you have not given me your reasons on why you believe it's incorrect of me to assume the ideals are based on whorshipping the european look, I see this debate coming to an end.

      Perhaps I can offer some of my parent's ideals. Of course, they never say it's european, they say it's the Chinese ideal.

      Females should have round eyes. It makes them look innocent and shy. The paler the skin the better class the lady. Hands should be soft to show a very demure and un 'fish wifey' type of lady. She must also weigh no more than 120 pounds if possible. The blacker and glossier the better in the hair department. Skin needs to be pinky white and blemish-free. Do I need to shoot myself? SF.

      Delete
  14. Anonymous 02/10/12:19:01, the only people raising the ego of white people are some Chinese people themselves. Caucasians are not totally aware of the level of adulation put on them. We don't boost their ego, they are just born in their place and hardly need to question their standing or feel the need to compare themselves with East Asians.

    Whilst I agree that some of the things I've listed are commonly held as ideals regardless of measuring against the caucasians, it is however more common to see the need to alter when you are living in Korea or China. BBCs who live alongside white people are less likely to go under the knife.

    In China, most people will only see caucasians represented on TV or advertising. It would seem that the culture for a fair few is to simply copy the western style and look, and cosmetic surgery offers that. Yes, there are tall men and women in China, but there aren't a lot of Chinese people with natural brown or blonde hair. There aren't a lot of people with thin/high bridged nose unless you are from certain northern regions.

    Even though no one actually says it's to look white, to me, it seems pretty evident that all the 'desirable' traits in the looks department seems to compliment caucasians. SF.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SF,

      Eh? a lot of European women dye their hair blonde too, why can't other women do the same.

      It's called fashion you idiot.

      Anyway ni keyi jiang pudonghua meh ? Wo xiang ni tangren bu kenung.

      You don't speak Chinese, you are a bullshitter.

      Ming

      Delete
    2. Ming, Fashion maybe, but many that dye their hair jet black are more in tuned to go for the Goth look rather than nod in the direction of oriental hair colour. The blonder the better I agree, which is why you seldom see someone buying dark brown contact lenses and prefer to go for blue or green, which is what I have seen Chinese ladies do to their eyes.

      What is that language?? It's not a badly cobbled together Giles-Wade or Hanyu. Are you a Mandarin speaker? I'm not. SF.

      Delete
    3. LOL, another BBC non Chinese speaking bullshitter, don't you know what Pinyin is ?

      Gwei los and Indians are picking up Chinese and will soon be better speakers than you.

      Fucking disgrace - Zisi ren !


      Ming

      Delete
    4. Ming, I know what Pinyin is, but your last comment seems un-standardised. Thank you for your assessment on my level of Chinese. I don't claim to be the expert on Pinyin or pretend I know Mandarin. I have said before, I'm mainly a Hakka speaker. Not fashionable, but it's my language. SF.

      Delete
    5. SF, why are you engaging with him anyway? guess u have your sadistic kicks and lurve yapping LOL, that ming greezer can't do English or gets BBC culture, he's just one of those "tune" Malay thrash, not even proper chinese, all loud talk, no substance, like forcing unwanted chilli to cantonese dishes, dil.

      Delete
    6. Fist of Furry, I guess I will make any excuse to further push what I wanted to say in the original article. He's coming with a different view, so it's my oppotunity to challenge them.

      Malay trash means Chinese Malaysians or actual Malays. Chinese Malaysians are just the same as BBCs as far as I see it. They just happen to have a generation or two going back from living abroad over many BBCs.SF.

      Delete
    7. ...if where you are coming from is just to neutralise, and avoid any dialectical discussion, then is merely reinforce the article premise, too safe, boring zzzzzzzz but correct PR,

      Delete
    8. Anonymous 11/10/12:03:20, when you say "they", is that Malaysians?

      I'm not sure about support, but I have seen Malaysians mix with BBCs. My parents know loads of Malaysians and their children are born here. I have not witnessed any kind of divide. SF.

      Delete
    9. SF i respect your views because it is non-confrontational, and it is not personal how you respond. Nice peep generally have these traits.

      I have notice a cultural divide in the sense that at my previous uni there were a Malay soc and HK soc and chinese soc, but the divide is not hostile and some members do float and mix amongst cultures and others prefer to stick to their own. I can taste the chilli and prefer to leave out the chilli when it harms, the problem is that some deny the heat.

      Delete
    10. No3, when you say deny the heat, is that a metaphoric way of saying you disagree with my view of Chinese Malaysians being more or less the same as BBCs?

      You said yourself, there is a divide, but it's not a hostile or obvious deliberate attempt to stay separated. It's just a natural thing that people will naturally gravitate towards familiarity. I think this is the case.

      An example. Nigerians have plenty of different languages within their country. When they enter Britain, they tend to still mix without being able to speak their languages to each other. Why? Because they find a common ground in even their country and ethnicity. They even put aside any former ignorances with each other's clan clashes.

      Many quickly learn that they need to unite under difficult circumstances where the host nation will not be able to tell the difference between a Nigerian to a Ghanian let alone the individual village dialects. SF.

      Delete
    11. Guys, turning against each other on a BBC specific forum is music to the white man's ears.

      Delete
    12. And SF has it right. Heaven forbid, BBC's and ABCs only speaking English. We are British. But we are also racially Chinese. And that is how it should remain for future generations

      Delete
  15. ADMIN NOTICE: Ming is now banned for pt2 excessive trolling/derailing violations.

    http://bbczeitgeist.blogspot.co.uk/p/rules-for-posting-comments-article.html

    Any future comments posted by Ming will be automatically removed, all comments posted in response to Mings comments will also be removed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good Z, correct editorial, that Ming so "tune" man, I get so annoyed when other BBCs like SF who appear not to be aware of getting verbally bullied or undermined, and just take it and carry on and don't actually confront or deal with the situation pragmatically, resorting to ineffective evasive verbal neutralising, it doesn't always work if u dealing with a stubborn nutcase.
      why are chinese or BBcs are so willing to take verbal sh*t when it is obvious that its intent is to stir up or take the piss, one should be standing up for other BBcs more. How are BBCs as a collective ever going to be empowered, when some commentators are can't even defend themselves.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous 15/10/12:04:04, I'm aware I'm that Ming was trying to rerail the discussion and offer a 'deliberate' counter argument to my views. I personally find that people like Ming need growing up. They mask their insecurities through the cult of stupidity. He knows he is capable of a formal discussion, but prefers to put two fingers up at the honestly displayed here.

      If I give him what he wants which is childish name calling and verbal abuse, then he will get his fix quickly.

      Personal insults is not my style. I can dish it out, but that would not be me. Why do I need to shift my personality to acommodate a more hostile situation?

      The real hostility towards the Chinese is not the obvious abusive language Ming uses, but the carefully crafted undermining going on in everyday life. I think that is more damaging to us in the long run if many are not seeing it or admitting it. SF.

      Delete
    3. IMO, Poor management style and justification the lack of assertiveness, this is not a takeway restaurant dealing with an offensive drunken customer where the onus is to defuse the anger and take the cash, if you concerned with BBC readers rather than the nuances of your complex personality. No BBc readers like to hear BBC insults given free reign (by all races)in a BBC blog meant for BBCs, yes you can give them rope and trap them if you know what you doin, it is the lack of fighting spirit and conditioned blind acceptance making BBCs a easy target due to of your passive response I am disappointed with, and i don't think it is uncommon behaviour either.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous 17/10/12:18:01, whilst I agree that people like me make it easy target, but I don't believe in behaving the same way as the some juvenile posters. It might seem passive to you, but I wanted to give an answer to questions I felt I could still answer. If I didn't think I was going anywhere with the discussion, I would have left it then and there. Anyway, BBCZeitgeist obviously agrees with you, since my posts will also end up being scrapped should I engage in any of Ming's post, so I get the message. SF.

      Delete
  16. A 46-year-old woman has died in Hong Kong and three others are fighting for their lives following a beauty parlour treatment that involves blood transfusion, highlighting a lack of regulation in the city's cosmetic industry

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/beauty-treatment-kills-hong-kong-woman-three-ill-023900592.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. BBC and Yahoo as usual only care to report news that they can twist to subtley highlight Chinese'lack of regulation'.

      Meanwhile a google search brings up more non-Chinese cases of other surgery-related deaths in the USA ( march 2012)

      http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Woman-Dies-After-Cosmetic-Procedure-Family-Wants-Answers-144991735.html

      in the UK ( feb 2012)

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9071687/Nurse-dies-after-fifth-cosmetic-surgery-sessions.html

      Delete
    2. Happybritishchinese, it seems these procedures were more for the older generation that believe in building good strong immune systems to ward off illness etc.

      The western media prefer to lump it under cosmetics when it's more hockus pokus new-fangled ideas using blood. And yes, the usual 'lack of regulation' is a firm favourite when reporting on anything Chinese. Trying to devalue the brand they know much of Britain has already bought into. Anything just to make other countries seem backwards and lacking in sophistication. It's the classic backhanded pat on the back for the west. SF.

      Delete
  17. Something for Koreans and East Asians to think about. Considering Korea tops the plastic surgery table, the recent Cloud Atlas scandal of using white actors to play Koreans might be bad enough, but imagine the money spent to westernise certain features to only find that make-up artists for the film had caricatured the eyes to the point of almost being ridiculous.

    This could only further make oriental people feel paranoid, or hopefully make us wake up and realise, we have been pigeon-holed anyway, so no amount of whitening up our features will change the way the west thinks. SF.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sadly I think the former more than the latter. There are a lot of insecure orientals, especially in the west, swayed by white society and thus white media.

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you trying to say that being oriental is like your partner beating your up? That's fucked up.

      Delete
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